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Polar Air Hiring
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LittleDeuce
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Be very careful about Polar. Atlas Air bought Polar last year and there is a rumor that Atlas is going to furlough their crewmembers since the Atlas crewmembers rejected their TA. This in combo with the outsourcing crews to the UK, makes Atlas Holdings Inc whole operation suspect. I think it likely that Atlas will transfer flying to Polar to punish Atlas crewmembers. Bet the Polar and Atlas MECs are burning the midnight oil trying to figure out what those "people" (term used loosely) at Atlas Holdings Inc. are doing now.
LittleDeuce
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flx757
I gotta have more cowbell
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Okaythen
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For what it's worth...
I just talked to someone at Polar today, and the plan is to hire furloughed Atlas pilots there at Polar. Because they are previously qual 747 folks, it's a cheaper endeavor. If they still need pilots after that, they will hire off the street, though this doesn't sound likely.
I'm definitely not in the know on the Atlas/Polar relationship, though I do know that Polar is still operating independantly of Atlas, i.e. 2 separate pilot seniority lists.
I just talked to someone at Polar today, and the plan is to hire furloughed Atlas pilots there at Polar. Because they are previously qual 747 folks, it's a cheaper endeavor. If they still need pilots after that, they will hire off the street, though this doesn't sound likely.
I'm definitely not in the know on the Atlas/Polar relationship, though I do know that Polar is still operating independantly of Atlas, i.e. 2 separate pilot seniority lists.
So Atlas management gets what it wants:
1. Busts the Atlas union.
2. Transfers flying to AACS and Polar
3. Rehires senior Atlas pilots at Polar first year wages on a bad contract negotiated when Polar was tanking.
It's likely that Atlas Holdings create a sham by sacrificing Atlas and transferring work to Polar at the expense of Atlas crews. Textbook union busting. Very trickly labor law here.
The Polar MEC has some hard thinking to do. Acquiesing to this sham puts them in a very tenuous position.
1. Busts the Atlas union.
2. Transfers flying to AACS and Polar
3. Rehires senior Atlas pilots at Polar first year wages on a bad contract negotiated when Polar was tanking.
It's likely that Atlas Holdings create a sham by sacrificing Atlas and transferring work to Polar at the expense of Atlas crews. Textbook union busting. Very trickly labor law here.
The Polar MEC has some hard thinking to do. Acquiesing to this sham puts them in a very tenuous position.
Miami Freight
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Dragin you have some good points. I've been a Polar a few years let me try to comment.
"1. Busts the Atlas union. " We are watching this closely. So far we have not flown Atlas aircraft or for any of their customers. In fact we are wet leasing at least one classic from Atlas to fly our freight. Atlas World Wide has done a lot to bust this union so far and they have hung tough. I don't expect them to buckle.
"2. Transfers flying to AACS and Polar" Once again that could put us between a rock and a hard place. Atlas has no CBA hence no scope. If AWW were to send me to pick up freight from a traditional Atlas customer I'm not sure on what legal basis I could refuse. I hope it never comes to this but if it does Alpa national better wade in quickly.
"3. Rehires senior Atlas pilots at Polar first year wages on a bad contract negotiated when Polar was tanking. " In my opinion our contract, while not great in the money department, is a hell of a lot better than the TA that Atlas just **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** canned. The trump card is that our CBA is amendable November 30, 2002. We may also go to mediation on November 30 if we have not come to an agreement. They will have their hands full negotiating with two pilot groups at a time.
I think the main problem with Atlas is that their ACMI business plan is not as affective as it was in years past. Their management is trying a variety of "creative" tactics to drum up business. AACS, buying Polar, dry leases to TNT, fractional ACMI etc. So far they have not done well. They seem a bit rudderless since MC died. Polar on the other hand was saved by 9/11. AMC has us very busy and want even more lift. Our Asia routes a going very well, at least East bound. I checked the log books during my last trip and most of our NRT-ORD flights are maxed out.
I wouldn't pull an app with Polar. It's a decent place with the protection of a well written CBA. We'll work it out with Atlas. So far our MEC's have been communicating very well. No animosity at all.
MF
"1. Busts the Atlas union. " We are watching this closely. So far we have not flown Atlas aircraft or for any of their customers. In fact we are wet leasing at least one classic from Atlas to fly our freight. Atlas World Wide has done a lot to bust this union so far and they have hung tough. I don't expect them to buckle.
"2. Transfers flying to AACS and Polar" Once again that could put us between a rock and a hard place. Atlas has no CBA hence no scope. If AWW were to send me to pick up freight from a traditional Atlas customer I'm not sure on what legal basis I could refuse. I hope it never comes to this but if it does Alpa national better wade in quickly.
"3. Rehires senior Atlas pilots at Polar first year wages on a bad contract negotiated when Polar was tanking. " In my opinion our contract, while not great in the money department, is a hell of a lot better than the TA that Atlas just **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** canned. The trump card is that our CBA is amendable November 30, 2002. We may also go to mediation on November 30 if we have not come to an agreement. They will have their hands full negotiating with two pilot groups at a time.
I think the main problem with Atlas is that their ACMI business plan is not as affective as it was in years past. Their management is trying a variety of "creative" tactics to drum up business. AACS, buying Polar, dry leases to TNT, fractional ACMI etc. So far they have not done well. They seem a bit rudderless since MC died. Polar on the other hand was saved by 9/11. AMC has us very busy and want even more lift. Our Asia routes a going very well, at least East bound. I checked the log books during my last trip and most of our NRT-ORD flights are maxed out.
I wouldn't pull an app with Polar. It's a decent place with the protection of a well written CBA. We'll work it out with Atlas. So far our MEC's have been communicating very well. No animosity at all.
MF
MF - I saw Atlas' TA and it was junk. No wonder it was voted down. Summer of 2000, I wouldn't have bet $2 that Polar was going to be around in December. If AAMT is funneling mil charters to only Polar, then that speaks of their motives also. Can you confirm that AAMT is transfering some -200s/-300s from Atlas mainline to Polar to replace Polar 100s?
AAMT is deliberately putting the Polar guys into a really bad no-win situation. To be sure, the Polar and Atlas pilots better hang together, or Shoes and company shall surely hang them separately.
I don't think even MC would not have been this Lorenzian. I wonder what Linda thinks of these corporate policies as a legacy to Michael?
As unpaletable as it is, I don't see any choice that Atlas mainliners have but to strike now. I remember making plans to get the Polar guys home on Atlas airplanes just prior to Polar's last minute contract settlement.
Best of luck to Polar and Atlas crews.
AAMT is deliberately putting the Polar guys into a really bad no-win situation. To be sure, the Polar and Atlas pilots better hang together, or Shoes and company shall surely hang them separately.
I don't think even MC would not have been this Lorenzian. I wonder what Linda thinks of these corporate policies as a legacy to Michael?
As unpaletable as it is, I don't see any choice that Atlas mainliners have but to strike now. I remember making plans to get the Polar guys home on Atlas airplanes just prior to Polar's last minute contract settlement.
Best of luck to Polar and Atlas crews.
Miami Freight
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Dragin- The TA was junk and was voted down. New MEC and NC are at work on a document that hopefully doesn't look like the first one. Polars AMC work was awarded while still a part of GECAS. In fact the USAF put Atlas in a 30 day penalty box for poor on time performance. AAMT is not funnelling mil flying to us. We have funnelled some to Atlas when we were out of lift.
Can you confirm that AAMT is transfering some -200s/-300s from Atlas mainline to Polar to replace Polar 100s?
Word on the street from just about everyone in the know is that the three 300s parked in the desert will go to Polar, I understand they have PW engines which makes it easy for us. The other rumors are that as our 100s get parked (one real soon) they will be replaced with 200s. Also Polar may get some of the 400s being delivered to Atlas this year.
Once again I don't know how we can say no to flying those aircraft. They are not violating any contract. I admit that it smacks of union busting. I just hope that ALPA national gets the NLRB or justice dept involved. Leaving Polar crews without guidance in this is wrong.
Polar has been flying only it's own business. I don't believe we have been doing any ACMI work outside of AMC. Polar owns routes, landing rights and has their own customers. That's why they bought us in the first place, as a complement to their ACMI business.
Atlas is a long way from striking. They will go through at least one more round of negotiations then petition to be released for self help. When and if they do strike you can be assured that Polar won't fly struck work. We have a solid cadre of aircrew that went through a lot to get where we are now. They are hard line. Also it's a possibility that we will merge seniority lists. It's in Polars best interest to see our Atlas brothers get a great contract. We'd be harming ourselves if we don't support them.
I appreciate the advice and thought provoking comments.
Can you confirm that AAMT is transfering some -200s/-300s from Atlas mainline to Polar to replace Polar 100s?
Word on the street from just about everyone in the know is that the three 300s parked in the desert will go to Polar, I understand they have PW engines which makes it easy for us. The other rumors are that as our 100s get parked (one real soon) they will be replaced with 200s. Also Polar may get some of the 400s being delivered to Atlas this year.
Once again I don't know how we can say no to flying those aircraft. They are not violating any contract. I admit that it smacks of union busting. I just hope that ALPA national gets the NLRB or justice dept involved. Leaving Polar crews without guidance in this is wrong.
Polar has been flying only it's own business. I don't believe we have been doing any ACMI work outside of AMC. Polar owns routes, landing rights and has their own customers. That's why they bought us in the first place, as a complement to their ACMI business.
Atlas is a long way from striking. They will go through at least one more round of negotiations then petition to be released for self help. When and if they do strike you can be assured that Polar won't fly struck work. We have a solid cadre of aircrew that went through a lot to get where we are now. They are hard line. Also it's a possibility that we will merge seniority lists. It's in Polars best interest to see our Atlas brothers get a great contract. We'd be harming ourselves if we don't support them.
I appreciate the advice and thought provoking comments.
I wouldn't be too optimistic about ALPA National doing any favors for freight dogs outside FedEx. Check out www.Emerycrew.org to see a complete history of how little ALPA has helped those guys.
Webslinger
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- Mar 21, 2002
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Miami,
I flew freight for a 727 airline that is now gone, however I am not familiar with heavy lift companies. I was wondering what you see as a realistic outlook for the company such as how many they plan to hire, how long on reserve, how long to upgrade, and pay rates for each seat.
Thanks
Jeff Kent
I flew freight for a 727 airline that is now gone, however I am not familiar with heavy lift companies. I was wondering what you see as a realistic outlook for the company such as how many they plan to hire, how long on reserve, how long to upgrade, and pay rates for each seat.
Thanks
Jeff Kent
Miami Freight
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Jeff, I'd have to be The Great Carnac to answer some of those questions but I'll try.
We have twelve newhires in class right now. I've seen no plans for any more. That does not mean a thing though. They publish about 45 FO lines on the 400 each month with 65 pilots bidding for them. Probably less on the classic. There is very little attrition. We've had only three pilots leave for JB or SW and two retire this year. With only JB and SW hiring it is unlikely we will have many resignations, those companys are about as different as Polar as you can get. Not many guys relish that lifestyle. That's why they are in long haul freight to begin with. My wild guess is 12-18 months on reserve. Reserve is not bad at Polar. They pick up the hotel in JFK and hotel and perdiem at every other location. Home reserve is 12 hour call out. Everyone commutes and no crashpads. I've paid for a hotel room twice in two years. Once last week due to the holiday weekend.
A first year FO will gross about $43K. Second $50K. Perdiem is $2.30 and hour. The average month is 16 days on the road. Comes out to another $900/month in perdiem.
Hotel, perdiem and $1400/month while in training up until your PC, then full pay.
We have twelve newhires in class right now. I've seen no plans for any more. That does not mean a thing though. They publish about 45 FO lines on the 400 each month with 65 pilots bidding for them. Probably less on the classic. There is very little attrition. We've had only three pilots leave for JB or SW and two retire this year. With only JB and SW hiring it is unlikely we will have many resignations, those companys are about as different as Polar as you can get. Not many guys relish that lifestyle. That's why they are in long haul freight to begin with. My wild guess is 12-18 months on reserve. Reserve is not bad at Polar. They pick up the hotel in JFK and hotel and perdiem at every other location. Home reserve is 12 hour call out. Everyone commutes and no crashpads. I've paid for a hotel room twice in two years. Once last week due to the holiday weekend.
A first year FO will gross about $43K. Second $50K. Perdiem is $2.30 and hour. The average month is 16 days on the road. Comes out to another $900/month in perdiem.
Hotel, perdiem and $1400/month while in training up until your PC, then full pay.
Miami,
As far as I know they are only hiring for the classic. Don't know how long they will be around, but I don't see any reason to hold on to my U seniority number since I am 23 from the bottom. One of our furloughed pilots interviewed and Polar said that they might have to furlough if the military contracts slow down. I don't think that there is a great chance of that these days, but I would hate to go from one furlough list to another.
Jeff Kent
As far as I know they are only hiring for the classic. Don't know how long they will be around, but I don't see any reason to hold on to my U seniority number since I am 23 from the bottom. One of our furloughed pilots interviewed and Polar said that they might have to furlough if the military contracts slow down. I don't think that there is a great chance of that these days, but I would hate to go from one furlough list to another.
Jeff Kent
Icebergclub
Happy to have a Job.....
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Here we go.........
Things are heating up........
Atlas Air, Pilots Released From Talks; Strike Countdown Begins
By Rip Watson
Washington, May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings Inc. and its pilots union were released from federal contract mediation, starting a countdown toward a possible strike at the largest shipper of freight for other airlines.
The National Mediation Board, which oversees airline labor talks, released the sides from talks, company spokeswoman Rachel Berry said. By law, a strike or lockout could begin following a 30- days cooling-off period. The Air Line Pilots Association and the company resumed talks last month after the union turned down a contract offer in February.
About 70 percent of union members, who include pilots and flight engineers, turned down what would have been their first contract after 20 months of talks. More than 750 of Atlas's 1,100 workers are pilots and flight engineers, the company said on March 22, when it announced a layoff of 40 to 170 pilots because of a shipping slowdown caused a worldwide economic slump.
``We have worked very hard over the past two years to reach an agreement that will be fair to both the company and our crew members,'' Berry said. ``The company has put its last, best offer on the table. The economics are not going to change. We remain optimistic that if they are willing to continue direct negotiation, we can reach an agreement.''
The union could not immediately be reached for comment.
The shares of Purchase, New York-based Atlas fell 67 cents to $11.23 and have declined 23 percent this year.
Things are heating up........
Atlas Air, Pilots Released From Talks; Strike Countdown Begins
By Rip Watson
Washington, May 28 (Bloomberg) -- Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings Inc. and its pilots union were released from federal contract mediation, starting a countdown toward a possible strike at the largest shipper of freight for other airlines.
The National Mediation Board, which oversees airline labor talks, released the sides from talks, company spokeswoman Rachel Berry said. By law, a strike or lockout could begin following a 30- days cooling-off period. The Air Line Pilots Association and the company resumed talks last month after the union turned down a contract offer in February.
About 70 percent of union members, who include pilots and flight engineers, turned down what would have been their first contract after 20 months of talks. More than 750 of Atlas's 1,100 workers are pilots and flight engineers, the company said on March 22, when it announced a layoff of 40 to 170 pilots because of a shipping slowdown caused a worldwide economic slump.
``We have worked very hard over the past two years to reach an agreement that will be fair to both the company and our crew members,'' Berry said. ``The company has put its last, best offer on the table. The economics are not going to change. We remain optimistic that if they are willing to continue direct negotiation, we can reach an agreement.''
The union could not immediately be reached for comment.
The shares of Purchase, New York-based Atlas fell 67 cents to $11.23 and have declined 23 percent this year.
Miami Freight
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I'd think long and hard about giving up a U seniority number. Polar is not a bad company but it doesn't compare with U. Can't you work outside of aviation for a couple of years until you get called back.
I like Polar but my crystal ball is pretty cloudy with what is going on at the mothership Atlas.
I like Polar but my crystal ball is pretty cloudy with what is going on at the mothership Atlas.
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