Pledge of allegiance declared unconstuti

[kilomike]

Atheists

Don't blame liberals for this, Please!!!!! Be sure the blame is placed correctly--on ATHEISTS who are attempting to foist their views on other people. As a liberal, and proud of it, person who also believes in God, I was horrified at this foolish decision.

I also want to point out that ALL the Senators unanimously condemned this silliness--including Sens. Daschle and Lieberman, both of whom made public comments about this folly.

Let's skip the liberal-bashing and put the blame squarely on atheist zealots.

 

[cherokee]

I agree we should not "chill out." It is this "silent majority" and lack of action and this chill out attitude that allows decisions such as this to be made since no one speaks out. The minority screams loud enough to be the only one heard and this is what we get. It is not speaking up that allows this political correctness to run amok.

And yes I do believe liberals are to blame, from prayer in school to school vouchers, liberals have fought to get any word God removed from schools. Daschle certainly did it only when he realized it would be incredibly unpopular not to.

 

[AWACoff]

Just to clarify, I am agnostic, not an atheist. Anyways, the phrase "one nation, under God", not "one nation, under a god". It is clearly stipulating the Christian version of an omnipotent being. The founding fathers did not believe in Budha so it obviously is in reference to "THE" God. The ironic part of this all is that 9/11 would never have happened if it wasn't for organized religion. Does the phrase "Religion is the opiate of the masses" ring a bell? The greatness of this country is that people are free to do what they please...to an extent. You cannot yell "FIRE" in a crowded theather...and you cannot force you views on others. Please indulge yourselves in your personal pursuits but do not force me to follow you. I am trying to exercise my rights to be apathetic. Sometimes I just don't care though.

 

[V-1]

How would any proponent of the "under god" phrase, inserted in 1954, feel if it were replaced with "under Allah", "under Vishnu", "under Satan", or "under Zeus"? In a secular nation, there is no place for endorsement of any particular religion. It's easy when in the majority to, consciously or not, force a lifestyle on others who don't agree with the beliefs of the masses.

I respectfully disagree with a statement made that the constitution guarantees "freedom of religion, not freedom from religion". As I recall from elementary history, one of the most prevalent reasons Europeans chose to settle in America was freedom of, and from religion. Seems I recall there was a time in parts of Europe when everyone was required to belong to the Catholic church.

More people have been killed throughout history over belief/non-belief in a particular religion than for any other reason. Unbelievable to me, considering all major religions were founded back when the Earth was flat, and the solar system revolved around it.

My unenlightened opinion only. Thanks for your tolerance.

 

[Timebuilder]

>>I respectfully disagree with a statement made that the constitution guarantees "freedom of religion, not freedom from religion". As I recall from elementary history, one of the most prevalent reasons Europeans chose to settle in America was freedom of, and from religion. Seems I recall there was a time in parts of Europe when everyone was required to belong to the Catholic church.

The folks that came here were not free from religion. When they arrived, they saw and heard diverse religious viewpoints being practiced and discussed with gusto. Many of our foundational ideas came from a viewpoint of what not to be, i.e.: Europe. That viewpoint is just as valid today as it was centuries ago. The only religious exposure that the Europeans were free FROM was the oppression in their PAST.

Understanding the intention of the establishment clause, as it has come to be called, is critical to this discussion. An establishment of a particular religion, let's say Catholicism, would require according to the founders the passage of a federal law by the congress. The law might specify holidays, number of times of attendance per year, and the recitation of prayers at all public gatherings by a registered priest, and the legal punishments for failure to participate. THIS, and only this, is what was intended by the phrase found in the first amendment.

My sense about the early settlers is that they wished to practice their religious beliefs, not to avoid practices or assert that prayer in the small log schoolhouses was an affront to their children.

For V-1: if the founders had been practitioners of Olympic, Hidu, Satan worship, etc, we would not have the country that we live in today. The constitution does not guarantee a "sterile" environment without an exposure to the practices of the majority, only a lack of official approval of a particular set of practices. While the Atheists like to use the question stated above as an illustration of how they feel when they hear "one nation, under God", it is a poor illustration. They can only make their complaint because of the freedom that they have here in our United States, including the freedom to be disagreeable. If armed teams were moving house to house, forcing Atheists to their knees at gunpoint yelling "PRAY, you SWINE!", then I would agree that their rights are being violated. In the pledge of allegiance, this is simply not the case. In fact, every time an Atheist hears those words, he or she should be glad that they live HERE, where they are not forced to participate against their will.

>>The ironic part of this all is that 9/11 would never have happened if it wasn't for organized religion.

Actually, it happened becuase of those people who are being misled by an organized religion, not because "organized religion" exists. This isn't a fault of God, it's a fault of MAN.

Just as we sometimes have trouble understanding a set of regs that govern our activities in the air, we need to have a better grasp of the documents that are the basis of our freedoms.

 

[cherokee]

Right on Timebuilder. One thing I can't figure out is how these atheists and others who are perpetually offended find their arguement in the Constitution. Where does it say that "Thoust has the right NOT to be offended"? This must be the newest Amendement to the Constitution. If you don't want to say the "Under God", don't say it! No one will haul you off to jail. What happens when you see an athlete on TV thanking God for their performance? Do you write a letter to the TV station saying you have been offended because you heard a reference to God?And as far as tolerance goes V-1, it seems to me those people that advocate tolerance the most are in them selves the least tolerant. Did you ever think of being tolerant of the vast majority of people who want this in the Pledge? Or does tolerance only matter when it's the minority?

 

[Timebuilder]

As a former liberal and agnostic, I'll try and answer that question.

According to liberal belief, when a minoity does something, it is generally acceptable, and when a majority does something, it is almost always wrong!

Example: United Negro College Fund: good.

Example: United White Folks College Fund: bad.

Source: Walter Williams, economist. Graduate, Richard Allen Housing Project, Philadelphia.

 

[Obi-Wan]

I think many dont know that the GOD part was added in 1954. So technically if we did fine without it before (in the time of the founding fathers) we can survive without it now.

 

[STEVE CANYON]

The pledge wasn't written by or during the time of the founding fathers.

 

[STEVE CANYON]

The Pledge of Allegiance
A Short History
by Dr. John W. Baer
Copyright 1992 by Dr. John W. Baer



Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bibliography:

Baer, John. The Pledge of Allegiance, A Centennial History, 1892 - 1992, Annapolis, Md. Free State Press, Inc., 1992.
Miller, Margarette S. Twenty-Three Words, Portsmouth, Va. Printcraft Press, 1976.

www.vineyard.net/vineyard/history/pledge.htm