Please Help! HS Senior in Distress

[Draginass]

I said this before in these forums, but join the military because you want to serve, not because you want to be cool. You will be a military officer first, and a pilot second. Steering yourself towards a specific weapons system is ok, but don't go around talking about being "stuck" in a heavy. You will be though of as immature by your superiors.

The correct way to approach you impending career choice is by wanting to be a military officer first . . . a warrior in service to your countrymen. Also keep in mind that setting your heart so narrowly on a fighter is likely to bring disappointment. You have the possibility of going medically disqualified (injury or disqualification from ejection seat aircraft), not progressing well enough in pilot training to be fighter rated, a dip in pipeline demand for fighters, etc. Keep in mind too, that about a third of those that start pilot training wash out.

I admire you goal setting and encourage you to keep at it, but temper your expectations and take it one step at a time.

Best of luck.

 

[morph]

What to do!

The academies are great don't get me wrong but there are better options out there as far as being prepared for military aviation and all. I've got a friend that goes to the AFA (J.B. Brooks) who loves what he’s doing and getting a great education but he isn’t flying for a while. I graduated last year and had my congressman Ron Paul helping me with my appointments but overall I decided I would be happier at an aeronautical institution getting a da@n good edu. And all my professional pilot stuff out of the way. If you really want fighters then going the civilian route for your edu while getting all the flight experience out of the way isn’t a bad idea. I would bet that a guy that had all his ratings (ppl, instr., comm, me, CFI, ect.ect. would probably do better in his flight schools once getting there vs. the academy route. On top of that having a degree in aeronautical science doesn’t look that bad either. Anyways it seems you have already decided on your future path so good luck and God be with you.


P.S. Don't feel bad when you look up in the sky to see your future 4 plus years away! I'd go civilian

 

[Purple Haze]

In the Navy you will have a ground job in addition to your flying duties. I have heard (AF guys correct me if I'm wrong) that AF pilots only fly and don't have ground jobs.

I don't know how AF deployments work, but in the Navy you are gone for 6 months and home for a year.

Ground job: Same deal in the AF - "additional duties" (That "fly only" deal comes after your military years).

For a rough wag on AF fighter deployments from a former heavy guy who may be wrong: I think they deploy for 60 or 90 days, then they come home for 2 of those cycles (120 or 180 days), lather, rinse, repeat.

Good luck on your appointment - if it doesn't come thru go ROTC. If it does come thru, remember to do soaring at the AFA.

 

[talondriver]

Statistically, apparently at Annapolis, 99% of those who wanted to go to pilot training got the slot. 216 people from last year's graduating class went to pilot training. On the other hand, the Air Force Academy sends about half of their graduating class to pilot training.

Is this correct? I would have thought it was the other way around. My godbrother graduated from Annapolis and he didn't have a chance to pick a pilot slot by the time he picked. On the other hand, I've heard stories of AFA cadets having to talk to the superindendant to turn down pilot slots. Don't know if it's true.

 

[fredflyer]

I think talondriver and some of the others are right on track. It all depends on timing. I got to USAFA in 88 and graduated in '91. When I got there, you pretty much had to stand at attention in front of the superintendent to explain why you didn't want a pilot training slot. When I graduated (after the gulf war and all of the military downsizing), I was in the last class of folks where if you wanted to go to pilot training, you did. The guys in '92 had to compete for their slots. There were a lot less slots than there were people who wanted to go. A lot of them got banked (they had to wait 2-3 years to go).
Euro Nato Joint Jet Pilot training is where you are supposed to get a fighter, but again, that all depends on what the Air Force needs at the time. The guys that made it through in the '90-'93 time frame (there was about a 30% wash out rate) either got a heavy, or a desk for 3 years with the promise of a fighter after that. Later, when they figured out they didn't have enough pilots, they'd let anyone with a heartbeat into UPT, and it was really hard to fail out.
You also have to look at what happens if you don't get a fighter, even if you do well enough in UPT to get one, because they don't need fighter guys at that time. You said that you'd rather get an F-18 on a boat than get "stuck" with a heavy on land, but would you rather take a heavy on land or a helo on the boat. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just that you have to consider the alternatives.
If you want a guarantee, go to a guard or reserve flying unit that flies fighters and get hired there. Even if you don't get on as a pilot at first, get in the unit, get your degree, and then apply as a pilot. Then you'll be guaranteed to fly whatever the unit is flying.
I did learn one thing from reading your post, you sure do have the fighter pilot attitude.

 

[Leo R.]

Everyone, once again thank you for the replies. Every post was extremely enlightening and motivating. I really really really hope I get into the Academy. I do meet the standards (my SAT is 10 points higher than last year's avg), I have a 96.5 GPA, have taken the most diffucult classes available at our school, rank in the top 6%, have 2 varsity sports and letters under my belt (track and Cross Country), am involved in 5 clubs, and have done a few leadership things for each, and have a long list of awards under my belt, have my solo for a 152 (but am going to finish getting my ppl before May). Oh yea, I passed the medical, fitness test, and am supposed to get a nomination. My liason officers said I am extremely qualifed, but still, I really really hope I get accepted. I really hope I didn't upset them or destroy my chances with my indecisiveness (switching from Air Force to Navy back to Air Force).

If I don't get accepted though, my backup plan is to go to either Embry Riddle, Texas A&M, or UT Austin for a year, do AF ROTC, and reapply to the academy. The academy has been something I've wanted to do my entire life. I know it has so much to offer, I'm not just going because its free. I know the training at the academy is second to none, and some of my best experiences (and worst) will probably be at the academy. That's just my whole view on things. And it would really really be nice to look at a possible pilot slot after graduation.

Once again thank you very much. It was awesome hearing advice from actual military pilots. To me, military pilots are the best. You guys are such excellents role models, and I really want to be one some day. Once again, thank you very much!

Leo Romero
El Paso, TX

 

[firstthird]

Good luck. I agree that either one will be great. I had a similar choice back in 87, got into both USAFA and USNA, I picked USNA because I wanted to sail boats more than I wanted to ski. That is somewhat facetious but pretty accurate, when it comes to academics and all that, the schools are very close. I did consider the fact that out of USNA you really get 4 choices of what to do, either surface, sub, Marines, or fly. Just in case I didn't have my 20/20 anymore there was plenty more stuff to choose from that would have been rewarding (if maybe not as fun, I mean is being under water for 6 weeks really as satisfying as breaking out on top after doing a hard IMC takeoff and departure).
Your quals sound pretty good but it is stiff competition and having SATs 10 points above average is good but that average includes lots of guys that are heavily recruited for their sports abilities and their SAT scores may be a little lower than average since the acadamies use the 'whole man concept.' where they count all the stuff like eagle scout, class president, all state football player,etc, very heavily.
Also, ask your congressman about the alternate nominations. If I remember correctly they usually have a primary guy and then can put in more names that go into the pool of qualified guys and you get an at large spot, more or less. That was how I got in, I was tagged as my congressman's guy but he hadn't given me the primary nod. Your plan to reapply a year later is a good one if you don't get in first go around, it seemed like over half the guys were not straight out of high school but had come from the fleet, NAPS, prior college or a year of prep school.

 

[Leo R.]

Firstthird, Thanks for the reply. Actually, if anything my SAT worry me the most. I got a 1290 composite (680 Math, 610 Verbal). The SAT scores from my region are unusually low; I guess its probably due to the fact the the school system in this region doesn't emphasize standardized testing like the SAT and ACT as much as they do on the East Coast and other parts of the US.

I believe the my congressman just signs nominations and lets the academy decide who they want to chose. I don't think they select a primary, etc.

If you don't mind, all of you academy guys out there, is it possible you could tell me your SAT scores more or less? Man, I'm really stressing, I really need to calm down about this. I hate this waiting game but oh well. Anyhow, take care and thanks!

Leo Romero
El Paso, TX

 

[DarinFred]

AFA Cadet here

Hey dude, I can give you the gouge on the Air Force Academy. I was in your same situation as a Sr where I had the grades to get into both, but luckily the Air Force Academy was the only one to offer me an appointment due to medical problems in my history.

I came to the Academy with the fly or nothing attitude and it's helped me tremendously. I have been a Soaring Instructor Pilot here for about 2.5 years now and that experience will help me tremendously when I go to pilot training. As a Soaring IP, I've been teaching other cadets how to fly (yeah, just me and another cadet with 0 experience usually). I've had 2.5 years to develope an air sense that most others do not get. Believe me, it will help in pilot training. Plus, not only do you get to fly planes at the Air Force Academy (10x better than driving a boat at Annapolis), but I also got to jump out of them. I also got 3 F-16 rides my Sophomore summer. Dude, it freaking rocked.

So here's what you gotta do in order to get a fighter out of the Academy. First, have the right attitude. Don't accept anything other than a fighter. In order to do that, you are going to have to be the best. In order to be the best, you need to set yourself apart from other cadets. To do this, DO NOT pass up any opportunity here at the Academy. I haven't passed up a single opportunity yet, but I also have been going balls to the wall for 3.5 years, so I'm kind of burned out. It's true that you don't get a fighter until you finish pilot training, but set the right habits while you are here. Next, study your ass off. Grades mean more than anything here at the Academy. They will make or break you. It's competitive as hell, but if you are Pilot Qualified and in the top 85% of the class (not hard to do), then you will get a pilot slot. I had a 3.0 and I was ranked around 300 academically. With all my extra stuff, I moved up about 150 slots in the job selection order. True, pilot slot 548 is just as good as mine, but I take pride in kicking ass here. Lastly, the Academy IS IS IS better than ROTC. I've had about 10 friends get booted and 8 of them have excelled in ROTC.

Bad things:
1. The girls are ugly and most hot girls in Colorado Springs hate us. Oh well.
2. Most things here are a haze. Oh well...they are going to give you a $40 million fighter when you graduate (if you bust your ass)...might as well earn it.
3. You will think about quitting daily. I have 127 days left and I still can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. On the other hand, The last 1300 or so days have flown by!

Oh yeah, I got a 1210 on my SAT, so you should be good to go. Sorry for the hastily written messege that probably seems disorganized...it's been a long day. Feel free to email me at [email protected] with other questions. I'll give you the facts about the zoo. Good luck!

Jay

 

[Draginass]

Leo -
A bit of advice from an old USAF pilot after a great 22 year career.
Getting your military wings is a long hard road. From the bottom it looks unsurmountable. But the day your girlfriend/fiance/wife/mother pins them on your uniform will be about the proudest day in your life.

So far, you've done everything "right." Congrats. It looks to me like you're very competitive.

The best advice I can give you is to keep your focus and don't make any big mistakes . . . . like getting a DUI, letting a romatic relationship derail your direction, getting injured in some bonehead stunt, etc.

There's an old adage air combat . . . . . "He who wins is he who makes the fewest gross errors." Everybody makes errors, but keep them to a minimum in numbers and severity.

Best of luck.