Please email this CBS News writer

[DH106]

*** I urge everyone who reads this post to email a professionally-written, courteous email to the writer of the following CBS News article.
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B954AA053-F953-43F3-BBC8-63D351A3BF2A%7D&siteid=google&dist=google

The author claims that airline pilots are overpaid.

"...senior captains earn as much as $250,000... for a job that technology has made almost fully automated."

"...consumers accept the excessive sums paid them, when it's airplane mechanics who really hold our fate in their hands."


Please read the article. The author's email link is at the top of the article.

 

[SWA GUY]

I wrote this guy Plummer an Email.

I told him he was a typical main stream media hack that wouldn't know how to do any real investagative journalism if it jumped up his crackhole.


He's a joke to his profession. Told him that too!

Next!

 

[FL000]

We should round up enough cash to put him in the sim for a couple of hours and give him a pro-check.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Here is the full article. When in full context it takes some of the sting out.

While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.

By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. Because we entrust our lives to them, consumers accept the excessive sums paid them, when it's airplane mechanics who really hold our fate in their hands.

 

[Flying Freddie]

Hostage,
I don't know whether it was in the sixth grade or at Wharton, but I remember something about supply and demand.

 

[DH106]

Flying Freddie, my apologies, but I can't see how any sting is removed from his full text. Please explain what you mean... The full article has no merit.

 

[Falconjet]

Supply and Demand

Flying Freddie:

I too fail to see how the whole article takes the sting away.

I do, however, believe in supply and demand. Too bad we can't all sit around and write articles about how this hack gets paid too much for doing his job, which after all technology (computer) has made almost fully automated.

It has to work both ways. If you believe in supply and demand, then let the system work, don't sit around and complain about what others are making.

FJ

 

[Flying Freddie]

Hi,
When I first saw the post I too was upset. After reading the article, it pretty much has my pay as correct. I wish I was making 250K a year but alas, it is not to be as of now. The mechanic bit sort of upset me. I am dismayed to find that I am not considered the most important cog in the aviation wheel. The public will always think we make too much. That is because we make more than most of them. Mechanics all think they should make more than us also. Hope that helps clarify my position. Have a nice day

 

[crashpad]

I probably wasted an e-mail giving Chris a wake-up call.
By looking at his picture alone...this guy won't get it.

 

[Publishers]

woe

Oh woe to him that finds out that a pilot is much worse than any woman scorned.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I agree, this guy is a Jackass. But he is just like most media types and even the public.

These same people don't know how much middle managers make at successful companies. They don't know how much moderately successful small businessmen make.

Why, because they don't talk about it. We love to point out how our competitve economy makes us great. But for every winner there is a loser. Think about that when we get threads going on and on about how much we are making. No wonder the FA's are upset.

 

[FL000]

The media have no idea what a disservice they do to our industry (who knows about others?). I still have friends who say they won't fly on Airtran because they used to be Valujet and they fly old planes that catch on fire.

The ignorant lynching of Critter by the media was a great travesty that still has an effect on today's flyers.

 

[BlueBusDriver]

Done......

That article prompted me to click on his email link and give him a tactful and professional insight into why I think he is WRONG.

Hopefully more will write to him to let him know that he is way off base on this one.


Adios,

BBD

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Pilots vs Mechanics

I seem to remeber from safety school that pilots and mechanics cause roughly equal numbers of mishaps. Personally I think in time we will go the way of the Radio Operator, Stewardess, Flight Engineer and Navigator. That is we will be rendered obsolete.

(Speeling is not a meazure of intelligance)

 

[taloft]

On an interesting sidenote, scroll down to the bottom of the article and click the link for the 10 most underpaid workers. I would guess that flight instructors make less annually on average than most every other profession on his underpaid list.

But hey, at least airline pilots are overpaid and that's the important thing.

 

[knelson]

He really got it on this one

Here's the irony. . . I am a pilot and a real estate agent, and I still don't make that kind of money. I guess I am lousy at 2 jobs. F*&% it. . . lets go bowling.

Kevin

 

[enigma]

Flying Freddie is right. Did you all ever hear the phrase, "RTFQ"? In this case it might should be "RTFstory", but the writer didn't state that all airline pilots are overpaid, just MAJOR airline pilots. The only real problem I see with the story is that he apparently doesn't know that SWA is a major carrier. In my opinion, he actually stood up for regional pilots when he noted that they do not make $150K and therefore are not overpaid.

He is wrong one one other point. He wrote, "consumers accept the excessive sums paid them". Consumers could care less about pilot wages. They climb onto my MD80 because Spirit charges less than the next carrier to fly them from LGA to FLL. If some other carrier could undercut us by paying even less, they would sell out in an instant.

regards'
enigma

9) Pilots for major airlines

While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated.

By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.

The pilot's unions are the most powerful in the industry. They demand premium pay as if still in the glory days of long-gone Pan Am and TWA, rather than the cutthroat, deregulated market of under-$200 coast-to-coast roundtrips. Because we entrust our lives to them, consumers accept the excessive sums paid them, when it's airplane mechanics who really hold our fate in their hands.

 

[DH106]

"the writer didn't state that all airline pilots are overpaid, just MAJOR airline pilots"

Enigma, you are correct; he did say that, and I did interpret his remark as being aimed at major airline pilots. I believe, however, that people like him think that anyone who flies "one of those big planes" is a major airline pilot. I'd bet good money that he has no idea of the official criteria that makes a major airline, a major airline. But, that's getting off the subject...

"He actually stood up for regional pilots"

I caught his statement regarding this. His article implies (to me) that major airline pilots should receive regional pay. He chose to emphasise that major airline pilots just sit on their asses, while computers and mechanics do all the work. He gets a C- for mentioning the low-paid pilots, but certainly not an A+.

"Consumers could care less about pilot wages."

Right-on. It's absurd that this guy would think so.

 

[DH106]

I'll show you the writer's response to my letter:



Dear Mr. Pummer,

I would greatly appreciate your response.

I am dismayed at the naive statements about airline pilots being overpaid.

You stated, "...for a job that technology has made almost fully automated."

1) Your comment implies that the next time an engine fan section blows up on takeoff, or the video system sparks and starts an uncontrollable fire, all we have to do is push the green "FIX IT" button. People who have not done our job have no idea of the technical knowledge, experience, and shear ability required to operate large jet aircraft.

2) My average pay over the last 8 years of flying professionally is $19,000 per year. I have finally made it to a major airline. My pay won't approach 6-digits for another 4 years. My final years of making 6-digit incomes will compensate for the many low-paying early years. How dare you deny me this, given my responsibilty for your life?

Your organization must refrain from commenting on technical professions where the writing staff has no practical knowledge or experience.

Sincerely,
xxxxxx

First Officer, Boeing 737
(Airline name withheld, per airline requirements)

------------------------------
Cristopher Pummer writes:
a major airline is paying you $19K a year to fly 80 hours a month? Please do tell me and I won't ever fly them again. thanks

------------------------------
No, sir. I stated "since flying professionally," not "since flying for a major airline." The phrase, "flying professionally" incorporates all such flying. There is no difference in the standard of safety or required skill among low-paying jobs vs. high-paying. A pilot for a major airline is not "more skilled" or "more responsible" than the low-paid flight instructor or regional airline pilot.

Here's a breakdown:


1989-1995: Attending the Univ. of Illinois, and paying for it myself.
1995: Searching for work: 6 months.
1995-1997: Pilot Instructor: $12,000/yr. Minimal benefits.
1997: Captain, on-demand passenger charter: $13,000/yr. No benefits.
1998-1999: First Officer, regional airline: $16,000/yr.
1999-2001: Captain, regional airline: $24,000/yr.
2001-2003: Laid-off, 20 months.
2003: First Officer, major airline: $36,000/yr.

Average pay since flying professionally: $19,000/yr. Please keep in mind that I'm gone from my family 18 days of every month.

I invite you to interview any other civilian pilot. They'll give you a similar breakdown.

 

[310Driver]

I think of my training as an investment. I shelled out over $30,000 to become a pilot with the understanding that eventually in several yrs. I would get return on that investment at a major airline. I would bet that the writter of that article didn't pay as much for his training as I did or others even.

We also have a much higher level of risk in our jobs than mechanics. We are the ones forced to trust in their work to do our jobs safetly. I think that all in the aviation industry that is highly skilled in their area of maintaing safety of flight deserve to be paid well. However being that the ultimate responsibilty is placed squarely on the shoulders of the pilot. Pilots should make the most. I also think that regional pilot are way under paid. They experience the same level of responsibility that a 747 captain has. They are under paid because there are so many desperate people willing to work for nothing.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[infoman]

To all,

I just emailed the author of the "overpaid" article. I asked him to take a intro flight on me. I did limit him to a $100.00 to ensure he doesn't charter a Boeing. I want him to expirence a 172. Should be easy .

Have a Happy.

 

[crosscut]

------------------------------
Cristopher Pummer writes:
a major airline is paying you $19K a year to fly 80 hours a month? Please do tell me and I won't ever fly them again. thanks

------------------------------


[/SIZE]

WTF? First he says pilots are overpaid BUT (when it concerns his livelyhood) "he won't ever fly" an airplane piloted by an underpaid ($19,000/year) pilot? Am I misreading something or he can't keep his own story straight?

 

[Steve 737]

I challenged this guy to write a story about the rest of us (99 %) who don't make anywhere near this kind of money ! No reply yet ! Steve

 

[ByeUSAir]

Captain Woerth's Response.

Captain Woerth's Response.


============================================================

14 November 2003

Dear Mr. Pummer:

I read with some interest your recent story on the 10 most overpaid professions in the U.S., in which you included pilots for major airlines. That was certainly an odd choice since the only salary expert you quoted told you that, ?You wouldn?t want to board a plane flown by a second-rate pilot.?

Well, thanks to the finest cadre of pilots in the entire world, you never will have to board such a plane. Today?s airline pilots are the most qualified and well trained professionals ever to climb into a cockpit. The 66,000 members of the Air Line Pilots Association, whom I have the privilege to represent, deliver millions of Americans and thousands of tons of cargo safely to their destinations year after year, decade after decade.

These pilots fly around the clock, every day of the year (including weekends and holidays) in a demanding, increasingly complex ? and dangerous ? environment. My members make a good living, but believe me, they earn it every day. Keep in mind that pilots at the major U.S. carriers have been extremely hard hit, with thousands on furlough and pilots at United, US Airways and American making deep concessions to help keep their airlines economically viable.

As for the actual figures, pilots at Northwest Airlines (my company) earn about $35,000 in their first year. Veteran captains who do earn six-figure salaries are the backbone of the airline and a critical resource for every other pilot in the system. Meanwhile, at commuter airlines such as Mesaba, pilot pay ranges from about $17,000 a year for new pilots to $24,000 a year for third-year pilots. A Mesaba captain with over 14 years of experience earns about $75,000 a year.

Remember, airlines consider that pilots are ?working? only when their airplanes are moving. Time spent flight planning and performing required pre- and post-flight checks is not counted, although they?re still on duty and responsible for your safety. Add in time waiting in airports between flights, and it's not uncommon for pilots to work a 12-hour day but only be paid for five. In fact, the typical pilot spends over 300 hours ?at work? each month.

Please revise your list.

Sincerely,
Captain Duane E. Woerth
President
Air Line Pilots Association, International

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

I challenged this guy to write a story about the rest of us (99 %) who don't make anywhere near this kind of money ! No reply yet ! Steve

He won't do it. His employer would probably blast him for not being "Independent minded" (read liberal).

His friends wouldn't invite him to pot smoking parties anymore either.

 

[YaMama]

I seem to remeber from safety school that pilots and mechanics cause roughly equal numbers of mishaps. Personally I think in time we will go the way of the Radio Operator, Stewardess, Flight Engineer and Navigator. That is we will be rendered obsolete.

Yes, but CFIT is still the biggest killer in aviation - that would seem to imply that the pilots have a more important safety role.

I don't think pilots will ever become obsolete - there are just too many variables, too many things that can go wrong in aviation to program a computer that can handle them all. Heck, they still have people driving subway trains, that run on *rails* underground for chrissake. Maybe one-pilot crews will happen someday however ....

In fact, the typical pilot spends over 300 hours ?at work? each month.

300 hours a month, yikes. Maybe I should stop complaining about the CFI lifestyle (not getting paid to hang around the airport staring at ice-laden clouds or stiff windsocks).

 

[DH106]

300 hours a month, yikes. Maybe I should stop complaining about the CFI lifestyle

Aw, go ahead and complain all you want. You've earned it! Hell... that's the essense of this post!

Yes, 300 hours TAFB (Time Away From Base) is typical at the airlines. I'd still rather do the time away than freeze my n**'s off driving a 150 around the patch in the middle of winter! I have felt your pain!