Plane lands on highway in TN....pilot killed

[Spooky 1]

National Heratage

At the rate these things are getting stacked up it will only be a short time before they are all gone. I have never seen a Hellcat in person. It would a sad sad day if we were down to one. I have never seen an avenger either. Two years or so ago two guys crashed a one of a kind Hinkel in WY. Usually the pilots are low time millionaires who can afford more plane than they can Handel. To me it would be like burning down historical buildings because we wanted to see how the old fireplaces worked. I know they can fly. There is plenty of movie footage of that. I also know that they can crash and we are building up a growing inventory of movies of how well rare old planes can burn at airshows. We are past the point of having to save them from the scrap heap now we need to save then from their saviors. I think it would be a crime to let them all be destroyed one at a time. Even though they are privately owned these relics are a national treasure and should be protected like historical buildings.

Skyline

Ah Skyline, you are a piece of work. I really know squat about warbirds but my boss has an active program restoring any number of extremely rare machines, some of which I haven't even heard of before. What would you expect him to think if the goverment came in and said words to the effect, your grounded. None of these aircraft will ever fly again. I think in spite of his keen interest in the history of these aircraft, all future projects would come to a halt overnight and we would all miss out on this part of aviation history. In my bosses case, they restore aircraft to flting condition, not just static display. This is a big and very expensive program and I would say if it were not for the multi-millionaires or billionaires, nothing would be happening today in this field. the dollars are just to big.

As for the pilots who fly these aircraft, at least in the case of his P51, Upupaepops there are only two pilots who have ever flown the airplane other than the production pilot at NA when it was brand new. They are the pilot who flew in active duty (9 German aircraft destroyed) who by the way is still living and very active albeit no longer a pilot and now Steve Hinton, certainly not an amature or rich kid.

It is a tragedy when we lose one of the airplanes due to an accident, but they were losing everyday when they were brand new. Sadly nothing has changed.

 

[enigma]

Considering I actually know many pilots who fly WWII restored aircraft, as well as those who restore them

I can say as fact, that most are anything but low time! The majority are present/ex commercial, military, or perhaps spent a good part of their life crop dusting.

And, has already been said-----------------
NOTHING beats the sound of Merlin powered P-51 flying overhead!!!!!!!

WRONG, two merlins beats it!

I'll never forget walking the beach at Santa Monica one day in the late ninetys when a P51 flew over with a Spitfire in close trail. What a sound.

I love round motors, but I've got to admit that nothing sounds as fine as a Merlin, or two, or three

enigma

 

[Skyline]

Spooky 1

Spooky 1,

As mentioned in a previous post I don't care who flys them they still crash on a regular basis. If it were up to me they would be declared national monuments and grounded. The government does that kind of thing to houses, why not planes?

You to must admit that every time one of those irreplaceable pieces of history is reduced to ashes it is a sad loss. You probably would agree that they are not making anymore and therefore logic would dictate that in short order they will be all gone. I would prefer that we keep them safe myself. I think it is a selfish act for us to risk such a valuable historical relic.

Get upset if you wish but it is just my opinion. You are not at risk of loosing your airshow fun. Contrary to popular belief I don't have any real power.

Skyline

 

[Bryan D]

Not true.

Getting an LOA for one of these warbirds is not an easy task. The CAF has VERY stringent rules about who gets to fly them. Most of the members of the CAF squadron that I visit sometimes are average working pilots and mechs.

I was wondering about this so I did a little research on the F6F pilot that crashed day before yesterday in Tennessee. Art Vance, former airline pilot, ~12,000 hrs as I recall, was a regular at Reno air races as a pilot, owns a
P-51 "Speedball Alice", has been with "Planes of Fame" a number of years, several thousand hours in warbirds. You get the picture, this guy was an accomplished pilot. Scud running seems out of character for this type of pilot. Then again, it seems like every time one of these old war birds looses power it almost always results in a crash. They must glide like a brick.

 

[NookyBooky]

Spooky 1,

As mentioned in a previous post I don't care who flys them they still crash on a regular basis. If it were up to me they would be declared national monuments and grounded. The government does that kind of thing to houses, why not planes?

You to must admit that every time one of those irreplaceable pieces of history is reduced to ashes it is a sad loss. You probably would agree that they are not making anymore and therefore logic would dictate that in short order they will be all gone. I would prefer that we keep them safe myself. I think it is a selfish act for us to risk such a valuable historical relic.

Get upset if you wish but it is just my opinion. You are not at risk of loosing your airshow fun. Contrary to popular belief I don't have any real power.

Skyline

You’re missing the point completely. The warbird population has been increasing steadily since the sixties. Why? Because of the very people you are blaming for the demise of our national heritage. Warbird enthusiasts with strong financial resources have been spending millions upon millions to locate and recover absolute wrecks in the middle of jungles, on the bottom of lakes in Europe, under hundreds of feet of glacier ice in Greenland, and from junkyards in third world countries only to spend several more million to restore those planes which, at the very most, have a market value of one to two million. Like I said, you are missing the point completely. I’ve seen at least a dozen warbirds reborn over the last several years; many, if not most, were unrecognizable heaps of twisted metal when they arrived back on US soil after over half a century rotting somewhere far away from home.

There are many, many projects under way to restore even the rarest of birds. Expeditions to search for wrecks in far-off places have been increasing steadily as the readily available projects have become less common. As hard as it may be to believe, the warbird population will continue to grow for at least a couple more decades.

However, I would venture to guess that eventually you will get your wish. As all the spare parts are used up to create new warbirds, the only warbirds that will leave the ground are those owned by people with the money to produce their own replacement parts.

That being said, I think we have all missed the point when we were sidetracked into this argument about the fate of these beautiful hunks of aluminum. The fact is a great man, who was also a great pilot, is dead. And unlike planes, he can’t be patched up or rebuilt. When it comes down to it, planes are just hunks of metal.




NB

 

[NookyBooky]

I Art Vance, former airline pilot, ~12,000 hrs as I recall, was a regular at Reno air races as a pilot, owns a P-51 "Speedball Alice", has been with "Planes of Fame" a number of years, several thousand hours in warbirds.

Actually, he was the President of the Unlimited Class for the Reno Air Racing Association. You're right-he was no rookie.

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

Yes, keep'em flyin'. If anything, to help keep history alive.
F4 (Kentucky) Wildcat

 

[Fury220]

Spooky 1,

As mentioned in a previous post I don't care who flys them they still crash on a regular basis. If it were up to me they would be declared national monuments and grounded. The government does that kind of thing to houses, why not planes?

You to must admit that every time one of those irreplaceable pieces of history is reduced to ashes it is a sad loss. You probably would agree that they are not making anymore and therefore logic would dictate that in short order they will be all gone. I would prefer that we keep them safe myself. I think it is a selfish act for us to risk such a valuable historical relic.

Get upset if you wish but it is just my opinion. You are not at risk of loosing your airshow fun. Contrary to popular belief I don't have any real power.

Skyline

Warbirds should be flown. Seeing a warbird grounded makes me sad for the same reason that seeing a lion in a cage makes me sad. Neither is doing what it was meant to do.

 

[Skyline]

Warbirds

Warbirds were meant to kill and to be killed, so I guess they are fulfilling their mission.

Will no one acknowledge the fact that we are loosing them at an alarming rate? Once they are gone it's over.

How sad will you be when the last one augers in? It is short sighted and selfish to fly these things. We are bringing an end to the entire fleet one at a time. I think it is a selfish crime.

It makes me sad every time I read another article about a smoking hole that was a rare piece of history. You guys are like loggers. They are not happy until the last tree is down. They never stop to realize that they are sowing the seeds of their own destruction. Greedily killing the one thing they love most one at a time.

Skyline

 

[erj-145mech]

Warbirds were meant to kill and to be killed, so I guess they are fulfilling their mission.


Skyline

So, you're saying its the airplanes fault?

 

[Skyline]

Previous post

erj-145mech,

I was referring to a previous post where the writer lamented over museum warbirds not being able to fly. His post claimed that warbirds should be "doing what they were meant to do". My reply is that they were meant to kill people. If I were to follow his logic then perhaps they need to be unleashed in Iraq. I think they have a different purpose today. One of being a cherished historical monument and that they should not be allowed to be placed in harms way for the benefit of a selected few.

Skyline

 

[Fury220]

Will no one acknowledge the fact that we are loosing them at an alarming rate? Once they are gone it's over.

Show me some real statistics to substantiate this claim. I've heard the opposite...that an increase of interest has led to a surge of restorations. This, in turn, leads to more "flyable" warbirds (instead of rusting/rotting/wasting away warbirds...which is, IMHO, a huge waste).

It makes me sad every time I read another article about a smoking hole that was a rare piece of history. You guys are like loggers. They are not happy until the last tree is down. They never stop to realize that they are sowing the seeds of their own destruction. Greedily killing the one thing they love most one at a time.

So we're like loggers now? I don't understand this analogy. None of us want to see all the warbirds end up as smoking holes. We all agree that they are a "national treasure" and whatnot. Our difference in opinion lies in *WHAT TO DO* with said "national treasure." I say: save a few of each example for museums (as is being done now) and fly as many as possible under public domain (as is being done now). This increases awareness, allows for nostalgia/appreciation at airshows/events, and puts the warbirds in public hands (where there's more money available for restoration).

The alternative is for the US Gov't to buy them all...in which case they'll mostly end up wrapped in plastic in the Arizona boneyard. This would be the greatest waste of all.

 

[Skyline]

More War Birds

Show me some real statistics to substantiate this claim. I've heard the opposite...that an increase of interest has led to a surge of restorations. This, in turn, leads to more "flyable" warbirds (instead of rusting/rotting/wasting away warbirds...which is, IMHO, a huge waste).



.[/quote


Fury 220,

Man I hope you are right about that. Maybe you could provide some statistics.

Skyline

 

[Yank McCobb]

You've provided plenty of statistics that prove you are nothing but some loser jackass that can only live, see, breath and speak negativity. I know because of that old saying "it takes one to know one". But you take the cake.

Crawl back into your hole with your misery. No one is interested in anything you have to say. At all.

 

[erj-145mech]

I'm in the vintage aircraft restoration business, and I can attest to this. There is a move to remove gate guards and substitute them with fiberglass and composite replicas in order to restore them. This is primarily due to the value to the relics. There are more licenced and airworthy Flying Fortresses now than there were 8-10 years ago. You see more about warbird crashes because they make for good story with the press. The SBD that I helped to restore was a derelect in the weeds behind an A&P school. When we finished it, we increased the Dauntless population by 33%.

The company that I worked for previously purchased a gate guard in Argentina for around $400k, and we put in another $1M in order to get what we wanted.

Aircraft like this have been on the airshow circuit for years so that many thousands of people can view and appreciate them without having to go to a museum. Airshows are the number one spectator sport in the United States. The CAF, the Collins Foundation, the EAA among others have aircraft on tours throughout the USA so that others may appreciate this national resource.

Remember, flying is still safer than driving statistically. So, should we take the '57 Chevy Belairs off of the road because they don't meet today's emmision standards? I have three Chev Corvairs in the garage, should I put them up on blocks, and not enjoy them as they were meant to be?

 

[TonyC]

Will no one acknowledge the fact that we are loosing them at an alarming rate?

No.

You guys are like loggers. They are not happy until the last tree is down. They never stop to realize that they are sowing the seeds of their own destruction.

Poor analogy. Trees are a crop. They regrow. The last tree will never be down. There is no metaphorical seed of destruction.





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[PolarTwins55]

Skyline,
If I oh so generously gave you my P-51(i wish), you would promtply take it to a museum, correct?

 

[Skyline]

Opinion

Hey guys,

It is just my opinion not the word of GOD. Calm down. You are in no danger of loosing your warbirds. I am not negative just have a different view from all you high on aviation types. Grow up. Get over yourselves. I guess that I am a threat to you somehow. Perhaps I should take it as a complement, or maybe I am touching a nerve. In any case I am glad to have reached you.

Skyline

 

[Skyline]

Yank

You've provided plenty of statistics that prove you are nothing but some loser jackass that can only live, see, breath and speak negativity. I know because of that old saying "it takes one to know one". But you take the cake.

Crawl back into your hole with your misery. No one is interested in anything you have to say. At all.

Dear Yank,

Apparently you are a fan. The ideas I present are just my opinions. I don't think that I am negative. My only crime is that I don't wear rose colored glasses. By your response I can only guess that a part of you agrees with me. Thanks for the fan mail.

Skyline

 

[FN FAL]

It is a sad thing that the pilot died but these confederate air force and rich guys are steadily crashing our national heritage. I would like it much better if these things were firmly tied down in a museum.

Skyline

I was thinking the same thing about your mom, but then I realized she was French.