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Plane Crash in NW PHX Kills 3

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Resume Writer

Registered User
Joined
Feb 7, 2004
Posts
1,121
Breaking news - no solid details yet. Apparently three people were killed in a small plane crash just north of the Chrysler Proving Grounds in Phoenix this morning about 8 a.m. I could not tell the kind of plane on the news - just that it had a high tail. There are some training schools out of Deer Valley Airport, but not sure if it has anything to do with them. Will keep everyone updated as news comes out. Very sad! :(

Kathy
 
It looks like a Seminole or a Seneca. Possibly from Westwind. Don't know anymore details. Sad. A witness said the plane was in a spin when it came down. I hope this wasn't a VMC demo that went bad similar to what happened to a ALL ATPs aircraft last year.

I am sure more details will come out by this evenings news.
 
Update: I am pretty sure it was a Seminole.

A twin engine plane crashed north of Phoenix, killing three people. The victims’ identities have not been released.

The plane was from the Westwind School of Aeronautics at Deer Valley airport.
 
The original poster mentioned that he saw a t-tail in the news, so it wasn't a Seneca. The only two light twins I can think of with t-tails are the Seminole and the Duchess.
 
I have no idea what happened, BUT if it was a VMC demo gone bad with 3 on board, this wouldn't be one of those outfits that puts the CFI in the back for that BS logging scheme? If so, I guess that about covers a CFI's ability to teach AND recover from the back seat. I guess we'll have to wait and see what happened. My condolences to the families of those involved.
 
bigD said:
The original poster mentioned that he saw a t-tail in the news, so it wasn't a Seneca. The only two light twins I can think of with t-tails are the Seminole and the Duchess.

Big D -

Original poster = "he"

I am offended! :D

(Checking to see if something changed overnight!)

Kathy
 
Resume Writer said:
Big D -

Original poster = "he"

I am offended! :D

(Checking to see if something changed overnight!)

Kathy


LOL - I'm sorry Kathy! Sometimes I read the messages without noting who it was that posted it. I'll try and be more careful with my pronouns next time!
 
that's the second seminole (or duchess, i guess) lost from the second school at DVT this week. what's going on down there?
 
bigD said:
LOL - I'm sorry Kathy! Sometimes I read the messages without noting who it was that posted it. I'll try and be more careful with my pronouns next time!

No worries D - I checked and everything is the same! Whew! :D

Kathy
 
Need a second opinion?

Can I check just to make sure that you didn't miss anything?:D

You never can be to sure!;)
 
http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/....1ba24e08d.html

20 year old flight instructor. Started young and ended young unfortunately.

Ok, speculation. Pure speculation. If they were doing a VMC demo, why on earth would you do that with a pax in the back? The last thing you would want is any aft CG during a maneuver like a VMC demo.

Bringing passengers for flight training is fine, but VMC demo I think is a mistake. But, it was over a practice area, and eyewitness reports said it was "spiraling". How else would a twin be spun over a practice area, in a twin, from a flight school other than VMC? Again, pure speculation, but that gets my vote.
 
All three were under 25 years old I believe. Sad to hear. That is 5 pilots in one week out of Deer Valley airport. Both crashes involved Seminoles. This plane was from Westwind and the one on Monday was from Pan Am.

Plane Crash Kills Three
5/13/2004

By Associated Press

Three people are dead following a plane crash in the desert northeast of Phoenix.

The sheriff's office says a student pilot was believed to have been at the controls of the plane when it went down in an area commonly used for flight practice.

The plane was based at a flight school at the Deer Valley Airport.

The sheriff's office identifies the victims as Nicholas Swanson of Mesa, flight instructor Ryan Waterland of Phoenix and passenger Brian Thompson of Phoenix.

Authorities are investigating the crash.

(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
 
In June '03 a light piper twin crashed in eastern NC. Two multi rated female "students" in front seats- practicing for atp or something beyond multi rating. The instructor was in back with a dog. Vmc practice. Why would an instructor ever agree to not be at controls?

Is it possible that these birds are stalling before Vmc so a spin is entered because of the Vmc setup?
 
Ok, speculation. Pure speculation. If they were doing a VMC demo, why on earth would you do that with a pax in the back? The last thing you would want is any aft CG during a maneuver like a VMC demo.
Aren't VMC demo's supposed to be done with the MEI blocking the rudder peddal travel?

Sooner or later you are bound to be having to do training or a check ride with another airman in the airplane. The person doing the training or checking is supposed to be on top of things.

I was getting a 135 check ride in the Navajo and the next check ride applicant was riding in back.

I had the hood on and was doing a stall series(not to a full stall). As I went to recover by lowering the nose and applying power, the right engine bogged down sending the plane lurching to the right. We were below blue line and I lowered the nose some more, while simulataneously retarding both throttles to idle.

There was a moment while this was going on that lasted as quick as a heart beat, where I was wondering what the FU@K was the check airman doing failing one on me during a stall recovery?

JR in the back did wake up from his nap after that little bit of freefall time.

The engine came back to a normal idle when I reduced throttles and it responded well to guarded increases in power. My ride was done at that point, so we headed home with out JR in the back taking his turn at the wheel. As soon as we landed, our chief pilot went running into the maint shop screaming...
 
n June '03 a light piper twin crashed in eastern NC. Two multi rated female "students" in front seats- practicing for atp or something beyond multi rating. The instructor was in back with a dog. Vmc practice. Why would an instructor ever agree to not be at controls?

Is it possible that these birds are stalling before Vmc so a spin is entered because of the Vmc setup?

please post facts. the instructor in NC was in the right seat with the multi-commercial student in the left. the person in the back was a student getting her multi-flight instructor rating with her dog (a small 10lb dog).
 
We were below blue line and I lowered the nose some more, while simulataneously retarding both throttles to idle.

wouldn't it be red line for Vmc? must have been quite a ride to see Vmc happen that high. You would think since it is certified at max power, aft cg, max weight, and sea level that Vmc shouldn't happen too much above redline (I'd assume, although i'm no aeronautical engineer, that the altitude gain would pretty much cancel the lesser weight loss). scary stuff an unfeathered prop is.
 
Last edited:
Vmc is blueline. It's where if you lose an engine, you will lose directional control at full power (thus the reduction of power from the remaining engine and nose down for recovery). Vne is redline.
 

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