Pitch and Power on the ILS

[Fury220]

Gettin' hot in here...

 

[Pedro]

mine? you obviously aren't too terribly observant. not real surprised. just speculating, but i think perhaps the reason you think one is breathtakingly original and an downright knee-slapper and the other is soooo *lame* as to require comment is that one agrees with your somehat narrow and dogmatic view of things and the other doesn't. the fact that *neither* actually sheds any relevant light on the discussion is completely lost on you. incidentally, both pointless arguments have been around about as long as the pitch/power debate, which is to say about as long as airplanes have been around.

I think you lost him at speculating...

 

[A Squared]

You're still a tool.

ummmm, yeah. snappy rejoinder there, sport

I think you lost him at speculating...

Apparently.

 

[NYCPilot]

What page is that on?

FAA Instrument Flying Handbook
[FAA-H-8083-15]

P. 7-33

"The heaviest demand on pilot technique occurs during descent from the OM to the MM, when you maintain the localizer course, adjust pitch attitude to maintain the proper rate of descent, and adjust power to maintain proper airspeed."

i.e., Pitch for your glideslope or descent rate, depending on the glideslope angle, say 3 degrees, and maintain the proper speed, say 90 knots by adjusting your power.

.

 

[Lead Sled]

FAA Instrument Flying Handbook
[FAA-H-8083-15]

P. 7-33

"The heaviest demand on pilot technique occurs during descent from the OM to the MM, when you maintain the localizer course, adjust pitch attitude to maintain the proper rate of descent, and adjust power to maintain proper airspeed."

i.e., Pitch for your glideslope or descent rate, depending on the glideslope angle, say 3 degrees, and maintain the proper speed, say 90 knots by adjusting your power.

FWIW, you'll also find almost the exact same quote in the most recent edition of the U.S. Air Force's instrument flying manual.

'Sled

 

[NYCPilot]

Using the power to control your glideslope is a less precise method. By pitching for my glideslope, I feel more in control of the oscillations of when to start and stop or freeze my pitch to hold the needle. Just the same, I feel I have more precise control when I use power to regulate my airspeed. It all seems much more intuitive and easier to control by using this method.

Pitch for GS
Power for AS

Although they are normally used together, it is much easier to think of the corrections in these terms.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

With brand new students I would do the power for descent path and pitch for airspeed method. By the time it's time to do an ILS, they understand the flying characteristics of the airplane better.


Never ever fly an ILS using power to control glideslope and pitch to maintain airspeed. That's a quick way to lose it. Doesn't matter if you're in a Cherokee or 747....

 

[WMUchickenhawk]

With brand new students I would do the power for descent path and pitch for airspeed method. By the time it's time to do an ILS, they understand the flying characteristics of the airplane better.


Never ever fly an ILS using power to control glideslope and pitch to maintain airspeed. That's a quick way to lose it. Doesn't matter if you're in a Cherokee or 747....

I always used the power for glidepath and pith for airspeed, and although it worked it seemed to be a lot more adjustment that i wanted in a stable approach. On my most recent ILS the other day i tried the way you suggested. I was within 2-3 knots of airspeed, and 1 dot pretty much the whole way down. Even if it isnt SOP here, I think I may try it more. If it results in a better, more stable approach, who can argue with it.

Pitching for airspeed seems to work best when there are limited power options, such as takeoff.

Just the .02$ of an instrument student. Later on I may find that the other way is better suited for whatever I fly.

 

[Foxcow]

Never ever fly an ILS using power to control glideslope and pitch to maintain airspeed. That's a quick way to lose it. Doesn't matter if you're in a Cherokee or 747....

I guess it depends on the person. I was initially taught to pitch for the glideslope and power for airspeed but chasing needles.

In my experience, if you are established inbound already at a given airspeed (100kts for arguments sake), the easiest thing to do is bring the power back a few hundred rpm once you pass the FAF. For the type of aircraft that I have flown thus far, it has never failed. The only time that I have had to pitch for my glideslope was when I was really low and in dager of going full scale.

 

[Huggyu2]

I currently fly 2 different aircraft. In one, it is primarily pitch=glidepath, power=airspeed. In the other, you set the power for the glidepath, and adjust speed with pitch. Why? Because the throttlle is difficult to set and reset/fine tune, and it leads to folks overcontrolling the throttle. Adjusting this aircraft's speed by a few knots is much more precise if you use pitch. Glidepath change is negligible, and you avoid a "power PIO" for lack of a better term.
Obviously, I'm referring to actions once you're basically stable on final. And yes, I know it ultimately is a combo of both.

 

[nosehair]

the easiest thing to do is bring the power back a few hundred rpm once you pass the FAF. For the type of aircraft that I have flown thus far, it has never failed. The only time that I have had to pitch for my glideslope was when I was really low and in dager of going full scale.

...ahh, it's that last line "when I was really low and in danger of going full scale"...that gives it away. You said you tried *pitch to the G/s - power to speed* at first but were chasing the needles. Well, that means you just need more practice and perhaps a better x-check tecnique, but as you say "it's easier to just pull back the power a certain RPM and ride it down". Yeah, that works most times in relatively smooth (training) air, but you will come closer to losing it, as you indicate "when I was really low and in danger.."
A real instrument approach in severe up/down drafts such as are associated with "bad weather" causes sudden dramatic reversals in up/down velocity and when you are rapidly sinking and your first control reaction is "increase throttle", in that instant, you are INCREASING your rate of descent. Your nose (thrust) is still pointed DOWN. You should first initiate PITCH Up as you are increasing throttle. And sometimes (many times) the airspeed has increased also as a result of the wind shear and throttle is NOT DESIRED, so...well, you get the picture.

​

 

[Pedro]

I guess it depends on the person. I was initially taught to pitch for the glideslope and power for airspeed but chasing needles.

In my experience, if you are established inbound already at a given airspeed (100kts for arguments sake), the easiest thing to do is bring the power back a few hundred rpm once you pass the FAF. For the type of aircraft that I have flown thus far, it has never failed. The only time that I have had to pitch for my glideslope was when I was really low and in dager of going full scale.

This is a different situation here. Given that an airplane is stable, if you are properly trimmed doing 100 kts straight and level, when you pull the power back a few rpms, the nose will come down to maintain 100 kts. If you remember when you were in groundschool, they probably told you that attitude plus power equals performance. For any given airplane, there is a power setting that will maintain a desired speed on a 3 degree glidepath. So I agree that just reducing the power would eb a good way to capture the glideslope. But once you are on it and have to make corrections, pitch for flight path, and power for airspeed.

 

[NYCPilot]

I think there is even mention on one of the FAA written tests that ifyou're on GS and fast, to ADJUST THE POWER to bring the airspeed back.