Pitch and Power on the ILS

[Caveman]

"once i am 400-500ft above DH, i start to slow myself up by putting in 10 degrees of flaps and pitching back a bit, while reducing power to keep on the glideslope. then, as i see fit, i try to slow down more with flaps and pitch until i either land or go missed."

I know that this works for you and I'm not being critical, but as your flying progresses and you move into bigger and faster a/c you'll find that the philosophy of a stabilized approach will become more and more important. At every airline I know of you must be established on glide, at approach speed, and fully configured to land by no later than 500AGL and that's in VMC. At our airline if it's IMC you must be stabilized by 1000 AGL or a missed approach is required.

I know your 172 is a lot different than an airliner but let me recommend establishing your own stabilized approach policy and then commit yourself to sticking with it. As you transition to turbine equipment it will be one less thing to incorporate into your flying.

Good luck.

 

[cforst513]

i can see what you're getting at, caveman, but i dont' want to be dragging the 172 in at 80kts with 20 degrees of flaps 7 miles out. i know that in jets and other larger, faster aircraft, it is possible and neccessary to get established and stabilized pretty early on an ILS or any approach. but as a consideration to ATC, the tower, and others on final, i'll keep my speed up so as to keep things moving. this is, of course, when i'm shooting ILS's under the hood or while training. in real life IMC (which i've never tried to land in before) i will probably get the a/c stabilized pretty far out and going at a reasonable but slow speed so as to give myself plenty of time to deal with any situations that might occur while i'm on final.

 

[Axel]

Point taken. I was getting at the fundamental interconnectedness of all things.

 

[cforst513]

Point taken. I was getting at the fundamental interconnectedness of all things.

remind me never to play you in scrabble...

 

[Caveman]

cforst513,

I agree that dragging a 172 in at 80 KIAS from way out is inappropriate but you should still establish your own stabilized approach policy appropriate for the a/c. Our's roughly equates to about 45 seconds from landing at 500AGL and about 1.5 minutes for 1000 AGL. The 1000' point is inside the outer marker and even in a 172 if you are inside the marker that airspace and runway is all yours. Shame on ATC for crowding you inside that airspace. Your point is well taken though. A 172 is a lot slower than a CRJ and what is appropriate for one may or may not be appropriate for the other but a stabilized approach policy appropriate for the a/c is a good idea.

 

[cforst513]

good advice. i'll try to practice it when i go out. thanks!

 

[minitour]

a stabilized approach policy appropriate for the a/c is a good idea.

Yep...I was taught (and I like) crossing the marker flaps 10, reduce power and ride the slide.

Then, if needed, when you break out at 200' you can put in more flaps...but usually you can land a 172 with 10 and no problems.

The whole point is a stabilized approach.

-mini

 

[sky37d]

i shoot ILS approaches at 100kts in a 172. when i intercept the glideslope, i throttle back to around 1800-2000 rpm, which will keep my speed at or around 100kts and follow the glideslope down. once i am 400-500ft above DH, i start to slow myself up by putting in 10 degrees of flaps and pitching back a bit, while reducing power to keep on the glideslope. then, as i see fit, i try to slow down more with flaps and pitch until i either land or go missed.

100 Kts in a 172??!!!uke: Man, you are loading yourself with way to much to do, at a critical time to do it. Don't try this in a complex airplane, at all. 100 knots is what, 20% less than cruise speed?? and 120% more than stall speed!! You got to be nuts to fly approaches at those speeds in a 172.

 

[Pedro]

100 Kts in a 172??!!!uke: Man, you are loading yourself with way to much to do, at a critical time to do it. Don't try this in a complex airplane, at all. 100 knots is what, 20% less than cruise speed?? and 120% more than stall speed!! You got to be nuts to fly approaches at those speeds in a 172.

I don't agree with you, 100 kts in a 172 is just fine.

 

[9GClub]

Pitch should always be used to control path and power for airspeed. But if you change one you will need to change the other.

There are only two situations when you should use pitch for airspeed:

1. When the power is fixed (Full power, no power...).
2. When you are on the back side of the power curve (Slow flight, carrier landing..).

Isn't final approach flown on the back side of the power curve? Don't we pitch for AS and power for ALT in the little stuff?

 

[Singlecoil]

Isn't final approach flown on the back side of the power curve? Don't we pitch for AS and power for ALT in the little stuff?

:angryfire Sounds like flamebait to me!

 

[Foxcow]

100 Kts in a 172??!!!uke: Man, you are loading yourself with way to much to do, at a critical time to do it. Don't try this in a complex airplane, at all. 100 knots is what, 20% less than cruise speed?? and 120% more than stall speed!! You got to be nuts to fly approaches at those speeds in a 172.

Thats what I was taught to do in a Warrior and its what I teach. Sometimes I fly them at 110 (PA28-180/C.182). There is so much stuff to be done in a 172...

 

[Pedro]

Isn't final approach flown on the back side of the power curve? Don't we pitch for AS and power for ALT in the little stuff?

Yeah, on the flare!!

 

[Bernoulli]

Pitch should always be used to control path and power for airspeed. But if you change one you will need to change the other.

There are only two situations when you should use pitch for airspeed:

1. When the power is fixed (Full power, no power...).
2. When you are on the back side of the power curve (Slow flight, carrier landing..).

I agree 100% Pitch for airsped if you are at full power or no power and when you are behind the power curve... IE... when you are entering the realm of slow flight... On an ILS in a light GA aircraft this would be when you start throwing flaps in around 200 AGL. If you have power available, such as on an ILS, then pitch and trim for the VSI that will hold your glide slope and use power to hold the approach speed you want. That's how I was taught and what I do and it works for me... but I know it's not the only way. Whatever consistently works.

 

[midlifeflyer]

BTW, I love the, "Pitch for airspeed down the runway." Classic. Wish I had heard it sooner.

Don't worry. There's one for the other side also. Pull the power to idle while in the air pull the yoke all the way back and and show me how you pitch up to gain alitiude.