Pinnacolaba list.

[Flyer1015]

I'll take this. If you were hired after 2001ish (not sure the exact date), you got stapled behind every single 9E captain. The most junior "9E Captain" that made the group just above the staple is an August 2006 hire. So the very top of group II is a Mesaba guy hired 5-6 years before the Pinnacle guy just above him. Fair and equitable (remember when 5 years was the expectation for even staying at the regional)? I was hired in the beginning of 05 and that guy is 300 numbers senior to me. The colgan guys around me were hired mid 2007 I believe. Again, fair and equitable? On top of the 35% raise they got, they will now be able to bid into a jet before me in which they had no expectation of doing when they were hired. Fair and equitable?

Hmmm, if this is true, then yikes! I guess just from doing rough math, The first group 272 + second group 88 only equals 360. So if you were a Mesaba pilot who was 361 on the seniority list, I assume that was a 2001-ish DOH? Regardless, number 361 still sounds pretty senior in my opinion, and yah, I see that he is behind 541 9E pilots and 149 Colgan pilots. Colgan did make out best, at least, the first 149+149=298 did.

 

[Inconceivable]

He's kinda right. What really has ALPA done in this past decade to help the profession? I'd rather keep my 1.95% then continue to give to this organization

Easy enough question to answer.

No ALPA: Colgan "Employee Handbook" and pre-CBA pay and work rules

ALPA: Colgan CBA with vastly improved pay and work rules.


Your statement is what we call "pennywise and pound foolish".

 

[RJLoser]

Easy enough question to answer.

No ALPA: Colgan "Employee Handbook" and pre-CBA pay and work rules

ALPA: Colgan CBA with vastly improved pay and work rules.


Your statement is what we call "pennywise and pound foolish".

You should look up Causality. Also "lucky"

I'd re-think the use of foolish.

 

[bri5150]

Hmmm, if this is true, then yikes! I guess just from doing rough math, The first group 272 + second group 88 only equals 360. So if you were a Mesaba pilot who was 361 on the seniority list, I assume that was a 2001-ish DOH? Regardless, number 361 still sounds pretty senior in my opinion, and yah, I see that he is behind 541 9E pilots and 149 Colgan pilots. Colgan did make out best, at least, the first 149+149=298 did.

I think that is almost exactly xjhawk's situation there. Maybe he will chime in. Exactly...YIKES!! As you go down the Saab category CPT, it is still bad, but it slowly corrects itself. Basically the top of any category really got screwed.

 

[xjhawk]

Yeah I took a breather to try and compose myself-taking time to be with my newborn son and 20 month old on fathers day....wait...2 hours of fathers day, I got called out on reserve. So I was 391 before this craphole SLI, 31 numbers away from a fair SLI. I was a 2003 hire (the 2001 hires and I were not that far apart in seniority because of the lack of hiring after 9/11). I am now 1255 and 650 numbers or so away from XJ guys who were only 100 numbers senior to me previously. My DOH now is junior to I think 06 Pinnacle hires and 08' colgan hires! How is this fair and equitable? I took a screwing now, I will again when I start bidding with the 9E 200 pilots, oh and when in 5 years those hundreds of colgan guys want to bid into the jet, they will keep me in the crap schedules for years to come. So for those of you who are FO's, you will see a exodus of 2001-2006 mesaba hires going ASAP.

 

[xjhawk]

oh just a FYI, i hold no ill will towards any Pinnacle or Colgan pilot in any of this. SAme for those senior Mesaba guys who ended up with frosting on their cake once again. I will however call you a$$hole/dick/whatever-even if you are my friend if you brag about your position and how awesome it is and how happy you are that we had the SLI. "yeah adolf hitler was not such a bad guy, he did not do anything to harm me" is pretty much what you are saying in my eyes. If it is wrong-it is wrong. I never wanted to put the screws to anyone. But in the process I got screwed.

 

[bri5150]

...oh and when in 5 years those hundreds of colgan guys want to bid into the jet, they will keep me in the crap schedules for years to come. So for those of you who are FO's, you will see a exodus of 2001-2006 mesaba hires going ASAP.

Xjhawk, those Colgan guys will be able to bid into the jet almost right away. Your (our) bad schedule because of this list will start in a few months, not five years. Sorry. The fences really aren't fences until attrition starts. The only thing the fences are doing for any pilot group at this point is that XJ will get the first few jet captain positions in the 200 and 900. And, as stated in your post there, you will get the position, then the Colgan guys will take it after you, but be senior to you once they get there.

 

[Ridgeback]

He's kinda right. What really has ALPA done in this past decade to help the profession? I'd rather keep my 1.95% then continue to give to this organization that tries to serve two masters (regionals and majors) when it can't due to conflict of interest. Everyone knows one has become a thorn on the back side of the other. Interestingly (or perhaps not), the most successful (arguably) regional carrier has been Skywest. That's a non-ALPA carrier. Also the happiest group - if there is such thing as 'happy' at a regional. Next, on the national level, JetBlue. The highest paid Bus-320 pilots in the country, and they don't lose 1.95% every paycheck. Next at the legacy level, Southwest. Not ALPA, and their union takes care of their own pilots pretty good.

Successful for who?...the pilots? I would argue the Company. Before you blast ALPA I would suggest you talk to a Skywest Pilot that had say a heart attack, then talk to the same guy at an ALPA carrier. I think you'll find out your measly 1.95% that you would throw away on video games and Moutain Dew is well woth it when you need ALPA medical, legal, ect.

I just love ALPA basher...these are the smae guys that run around with liability only on their car then are somehow upset when their car is totaled by a deer.

Hey I'll give you a chance...what percent of my pay will I need to contribute to the PPA, or NMFC, or what ever we would have to run a legal department, medical department, lobby group, ect. I'd bet my last cigar it wold be much...much more than 1.95%

 

[xjhawk]

yeah those reasons are THE only reason I would stay ALPA-the bennies on a national level if the ******************** hit the fan and I needed a lawyer and for the political stuff. But as for looking out for my well being and my career. I think Mesaba's MEC, 9E's MEC both were not doing the right thing when it came to the SLI. Oh and for those of you who will argue that mesaba's worked very hard for us...hey they did, they just did not do it well.......sorry to say its true....oh and because they are not fighting the finished SLI because it does not folllow ALPA merger policy......bullcrap. fair and equitable my A$$. 2001 hires behind 3/4 year colgan guys and 5 year pinnacle ones.....really fair.....

Oh and by the way, even with the saabs leaving a lot of those guys in the top of the Mesaba Saab group would have remained a jet captain. BULL********************

 

[suupah]

yeah those reasons are THE only reason I would stay ALPA-the bennies on a national level if the ******************** hit the fan and I needed a lawyer and for the political stuff. But as for looking out for my well being and my career. I think Mesaba's MEC, 9E's MEC both were not doing the right thing when it came to the SLI. Oh and for those of you who will argue that mesaba's worked very hard for us...hey they did, they just did not do it well.......sorry to say its true....oh and because they are not fighting the finished SLI because it does not folllow ALPA merger policy......bullcrap. fair and equitable my A$$. 2001 hires behind 3/4 year colgan guys and 5 year pinnacle ones.....really fair.....

Oh and by the way, even with the saabs leaving a lot of those guys in the top of the Mesaba Saab group would have remained a jet captain. BULL********************

Ok, so tell me, other than the date of hire not being fair...did you lose anything?

I lost like 12% relative seniority but my life will actually be pretty much if not exactly the same after the award. Therefore, overall i would say it was fair for MOST not all.