Pinnacle, pilots union meet with mediators

[JoeMerchant]

Most of you guys have no idea what you are talking about.

Pinnacle pilots are being whipsawed not only by Mesaba but Compass and Republic. Take a short look at the CEO of Compass. Neil Cohen is the guy making all the moves in the NW bankruptcy, and he is the CEO of Compass. Where do you think his next big payday is? Compass will be IPO'd in a few years for twice what PCL brought to NW and Cohen/Steenland will be there for their shares.

PCL pilots are left with two options: take whatever they can get in the way of workrules/scope or watch their jobs go to Republic or Compass. The NMB is not going to let them go on strike so the by hanging tough, they simply watch their careers melt away.

There is not a "WIN" scenario out there for the PCL guys.

And who is to blame for Compass? ALPA, NWALPA, and DW. Brand scope was an empty promise to keep everyone believing in ALPA. Pinnacle and Mesaba will suffer the consequences.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

And who is to blame for Compass? ALPA, NWALPA, and DW. Brand scope was an empty promise to keep everyone believing in ALPA. Pinnacle and Mesaba will suffer the consequences.

John, seriously, don't you ever get tired of blaming ALPA? All this can't be good for the BP. You will not live a long happy life if you keep up this childish tirade!

 

[WildBlue]

You speak of "ALPA" as if it were a monolithic organization with the President sitting at the top pulling the strings of every pilot group. That is simply false. ALPA is a collection of individual fiefdoms. This is whole mess was started back in the '80s when the mainline pilots thought flying small prop airplanes was beneath them.

Blame ALPA if it makes you feel a bit better. The fact of the matter is that the pilots at Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, and ASA all work for bankrupt carriers who are going to do whatever it takes to achieve the lowest costs in the industry. Northwest is particularly ruthless. Both these carriers have not only basic labor law on their sides, but they also have the power of the bankrupcty court.

All these pilots need to look deep within themselves and ask whether it is better to keep their jobs or move on. The Mesaba guys are not being given a choice. The others could make a deal and have a much higher chance of living to fight another day. The deal will be tough to swallow, but losing your health care and jobs you may have invested ten years or more, all for the sake of holding the line, will be even more bitter.

 

[Lear70]

You speak of "ALPA" as if it were a monolithic organization with the President sitting at the top pulling the strings of every pilot group. That is simply false.

Actually, that's not far off. DW determines policy, no one has had the balls to stand up to him and tell him to go a different route, therefore he IS sitting at the top pulling the strings.

ALPA is a collection of individual fiefdoms. This is whole mess was started back in the '80s when the mainline pilots thought flying small prop airplanes was beneath them.

No argument there but, again, what we're talking about is how to fix things NOW and ALPA has been Woerthless (excuse the pun), at changing ANYTHING in our favor.

Yes, I know that it's the judicial system and the government's support of the more onerous parts of the RLA that are largely to blame, but isn't that what ALPA PAC was for? So if it's not ALPA PAC swaying the government to blame, and it's not the individual carriers who are CURRENTLY FIGHTING to blame, who is there left directing the organization?

Blame ALPA if it makes you feel a bit better. The fact of the matter is that the pilots at Pinnacle, Mesaba, Comair, and ASA all work for bankrupt carriers who are going to do whatever it takes to achieve the lowest costs in the industry. Northwest is particularly ruthless. Both these carriers have not only basic labor law on their sides, but they also have the power of the bankrupcty court.

Agreed.

All these pilots need to look deep within themselves and ask whether it is better to keep their jobs or move on. The Mesaba guys are not being given a choice. The others could make a deal and have a much higher chance of living to fight another day. The deal will be tough to swallow, but losing your health care and jobs you may have invested ten years or more, all for the sake of holding the line, will be even more bitter.

There is no "living to fight another day". That's a useless mantra being chanted for the disinformed masses and something all the carriers have been crying for over a decade, yet it continues to worsen, even as record profits are being posted.

Explain to me HOW you're living to fight another day? Explain to me HOW things are going to be somehow better for negotiations in the future? Be specific. Are you somehow going to get the RLA overturned or modified? Not likely. There is no "better day" out there; airlines will rake in the profits for the next 5-7 years then start posting losses right about the time all these negotiations start back up again.

Die all at once NOW, salvage your career and move on NOW, or die in little bits and pieces like so many carriers taking huge pay cuts then not even getting BASIC COLA adjustments and make equivalently LESS as you age.

Until pilots are ready to bury an airline and move on, nothing good will happen at any of these carriers. Loss of income is all these management people understand; make it hurt THEM and they'll stop. Continue to capitulate and you'll only encourage them.

But that's all a pipe dream. Too many people willing to HOPE for a brighter future and give in now and keep dreaming. One day a couple decades from now, you'll wake up and wonder "WTF happened to my career?"

 

[CoATP]

Thinigs will not get better until there are not throngs of pilots willing to work for dirt wages. Smaller numbers of furloughed pilots returning than ever before, perhaps some time at a decent income has convinced them that "the dream" is supporting themselves and their family.

ALPA is going to "make a stand" with the airlines it can afford to lose (regionals) and use them as examples for improving conditions when the big boys come around to the table again. USA today has a piece today about improving airline conditions but makes pilots seem like they are still high paid. They always use the 150-200k example for salaries.

 

[XJohXJ]

NWA and their fetid stinking piece of sh!t crap contract has proven that when the "another day" rolls around, many wish they were not there to see it, after all.

 

[Rook]

ALPA is going to "make a stand" with the airlines it can afford to lose (regionals) and use them as examples for improving conditions when the big boys come around to the table again.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Tank Commander]

Just got done picketing in DTW. Had a strong turn-out 80-90 pilots. Never got to picket in the corps. They would throw your a$$ in prison or shoot you. It's great to be a civilian again! (watch this......... Bush eat $hit!) I love this country.

 

[Lear70]

Fo shizzle my nizzle, bizzell... how YOU doin? Long time no talk... where u been?

You upgrading yet or what? Still have that hat if you want it.

 

[Clark W.]

my mec speaks for me

Really? You have told several people how much you dislike ALPA. So full of it, Dave.