Pinnacle PIC Time

[IamGumbyDammit]

Boy, this is GREAT!!!!! - Flounder.

 

[CLECA]

Dude, you seriously need to get a life. If you asked this question before this whole thread then you go right ahead and log it. Because you obviously have it in your head that this is ethical and nothing I say here is going to change that.


If you wrote to that guy after this thread started, then you are seriously lamer than I could ever have predicted. Good Luck in all that you do.

And IMHO I still disagree. My point was more about the ethics of it and how others will perceive it.

On a side note I can't believe this freaking thing went 6 pages.

 

[Checks]

That would be about $3,600 before taxes

THAT IS ALL A CRJ captain makes? Sad, really, really sad. How they got you suckers to work there in the first place is beyond me.

Then again you guys might be thinking "WOW, I will make 40K this year!"

 

[PCL_128]

That would be about $3,600 before taxes

THAT IS ALL A CRJ captain makes? Sad, really, really sad. How they got you suckers to work there in the first place is beyond me.

Then again you guys might be thinking "WOW, I will make 40K this year!"

No, of course not. I'll be upgrading in a couple of months at Pinnacle at 4th year pay. That will be roughly $61/hr. We have a 75 hour guarantee, but most lines are in the 85-95 hour range. So, say I get a 90 hour line: 90 hours * $61 = $5,490 before taxes. Even at guarantee I would get $4,575. I don't know where the $3600 figure comes from. I could make that as an FO if I picked up some open-time. The pay certainly is below what it should be, but it's nowhere near 40k a year.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

$$$

does anyone know when Pinnacle's contract is up, and if the pay scale will go up a little when they ratify it?

 

[PCL_128]

does anyone know when Pinnacle's contract is up, and if the pay scale will go up a little when they ratify it?

Our contract was amendable in May of this year. Negotiations began at the beginning of the year and are progressing at a decent pace right now. The pay scales will of course go up, hopefully by quite a bit.

 

[Lear70]

That would be about $3,600 before taxes

THAT IS ALL A CRJ captain makes? Sad, really, really sad. How they got you suckers to work there in the first place is beyond me.

Then again you guys might be thinking "WOW, I will make 40K this year!"

I believe the reference was to how much a first year F/O makes and how the person in question was willing to bet that amount.

For the record, my W-2 on 4th year CA pay should be in the $80k range but I change bases a lot (sport bidding) and that's inflated an extra $5,000 because of that; I also work 95-99 hours a month and I'll time out in November, crediting over 1,200 hours of pay for the year with two weeks of paid vacation and the month of December off with pay.

Could be better, could be worse. I'd prefer to make $85k - $95k a year at guarantee, but then I wouldn't get December off with pay.

Tony is indeed working his tail off, as are others. During the last pilot meeting with senior management in DTW they didn't seem very concerned about the issue. They've evidently hired enough pilots who DO meet the minimums and there's always more F/O's out there so... as everything else here at Pissnickle, if it's not a problem for management, it's "not their problem" and nothing will be done about it.

 

[labbats]

For the record, my W-2 on 4th year CA pay should be in the $80k range but I change bases a lot (sport bidding) and that's inflated an extra $5,000 because of that; I also work 95-99 hours a month and I'll time out in November, crediting over 1,200 hours of pay for the year with two weeks of paid vacation and the month of December off with pay.

What are you doing? Take some time to sit at home and relax. You're making the rest of us look bad.

 

[Clutch_Cargo]

Dude, you seriously need to get a life. If you asked this question before this whole thread then you go right ahead and log it. Because you obviously have it in your head that this is ethical and nothing I say here is going to change that.


If you wrote to that guy after this thread started, then you are seriously lamer than I could ever have predicted. Good Luck in all that you do.

And IMHO I still disagree. My point was more about the ethics of it and how others will perceive it.

On a side note I can't believe this freaking thing went 6 pages.

You know, you keep railing on towlie like he's committing a felony when, in reality, he is 100% correct. He even backed up his answer w/ a legal interpretation. You won't even look up the 121 reg you say governs this matter! The fact is acting as, serving as, and logging PIC are all different things. Part 61, which regulates pilots and not GA aircraft (as you incorrectly stated in a previous post), allows for logging PIC at times when the pilot is not necessarily acting/serving as PIC. Now, since this is legal, how is it unethical? He's not sitting at the end of the runway w/ his logbook and Parker pen copying tail numbers... he's not making up time. It only becomes unethical if he tries to pass it off as something it is not. Every airline I've come across has an application that asks for your flight times and it defines what they will consider as PIC time. If you fill out the application using their definitions, then what does it matter what you put in logbook? If asked why my logbook doesn't match my application I would tell the interviewers that my logbook contains times as defined by 61.51 and I broke them out to meet your definition of PIC when filling out the app. If that isn't a satisfactory answer and they, to quote you, "stop the interview immediately and show you the door go into the waiting rooom and ask if anybody else did what this dumbass just did," I'm going to thank them. Why? Because they will have saved me from making the mistake of going to work for a bunch of a-holes who don't have a clue. All that said, you are entitled to your opinion and I'll respect that just as I hope you can respect my opinion... and towelie's too.

cc

 

[manitoba]

For those hopefuls who are seeking a decent job with an ok airline, Pinnacle is an ok company. The pay is not great but the company is going to be around for the next few years. For those of you who are new in this airline world, Pinacle has been around for twenty years and they have been growing almost every year and been profitable every year. There are some great airlines and there are very bad ones. Pinnacle is an ok airline. The paychecks are always on time
For those who wish to be hired at Pinnacle right now please be informed that there will be more airplanes coming. The carrot is being held as negotiations are worked through. This is fact. Just some inside information.
The hiring critera is now more difficult however there is an organization in memphis that helps candidates to be prep'd for this hiring process. I have heard lot of good things about them. They can be reached via email at mempilotinterviews.com. Give them a shot. The last class of interviewees was for ten people and only 2 were hired. Those 2 had been prep'd by the above mentioned
Have a great 4th...........PEACE

 

[Lear70]

The hiring critera is now more difficult however there is an organization in memphis that helps candidates to be prep'd for this hiring process. I have heard lot of good things about them. They can be reached via email at mempilotinterviews.com. Give them a shot. The last class of interviewees was for ten people and only 2 were hired. Those 2 had been prep'd by the above mentioned
Have a great 4th...........PEACE

*snicker* The hiring criteria is more difficult now? Well, it used to be four functioning limbs and a heartbeat, (and the ability to pass that stupid written test), so I'm glad to hear we're getting a wee bit more choosy these days.

I'm also THRILLED to hear that they're only getting a trickle of people. If they can't fill classes with people they want and they want to keep their newly-raised criteria, they'll be forced to increase the compensation offered new-hires and it will no longer be as big of a bargaining point during negotiations.

 

[DoinTime]

Don, your understanding of the situation is simply not accurate. This is not a company requirement. This is something the POI is trying to enforce. Call the DTW FO rep. He's the guy handling most of this. He can bring you up to speed on the real facts of this situation.

A quick inspection of the requirements listed on the Bid Preference form will show you that 250 PIC is a company requirement along with 3500 total time, 2000 multiengine and 1000 turbine. If the company had any intention to make this reducible they very well could just as they have done for the other requirements. Proper identification of the problem is the first step in finding resolution.

PCL128...I hope your not this susceptible to company propaganda come issues invovlving contract negotiations.

 

[DoinTime]

Attention CLECA and DoinTime:

I NEVER, and I repeat NEVER, said you could do it without the type rating. However, you CAN with a type rating. I have said that all along and that has not changed. It is not 121 PIC time, it is 61 PIC time.

Why would you cite an example that doesn't apply to anyone we are talking about? Sure...a rated SIC can log some PIC time but first officers at PCL are not rated!

 

[PCL_128]

A quick inspection of the requirements listed on the Bid Preference form will show you that 250 PIC is a company requirement along with 3500 total time, 2000 multiengine and 1000 turbine. If the company had any intention to make this reducible they very well could just as they have done for the other requirements. Proper identification of the problem is the first step in finding resolution.

PCL128...I hope your not this susceptible to company propaganda come issues invovlving contract negotiations.

The 250 PIC listed on the Bid Preference form is a result of the POI not allowing the SIC time to be counted for now. Until that changes with an interpretation from the Council General or a new POI, then that requirement will be on the form so pilots without the PIC time don't keep showing up in class when they don't meet the mins that the POI is demanding.

This has nothing to do with company propaganda, this is about a renegade POI and FSDO that think they can treat Pinnacle differently than every other airline in the country is treated. When not a single other FSDO can be found that agrees with the MEM FSDO, then there's a problem. Our POI has overstepped his bounds and needs to get in line with what is considered standard practice. Treating our airline different than all the others is just not acceptable.

I really wish all of you guys would just call one of your DTW LEC reps to get the facts on this issue instead of citing your faulty interpretations of the regs. The reps are working on this, and they should be your source of information, not the crazy rumor mill.

 

[Inconceivable]

Yes, but at least this POI can pass a type ride and not fall asleep in systems ground school like a certain affirmative-action geriatric hanger-on POI who did not fare so well in the 3701 hearings.....