Pinnacle Pay Scale

[Wankel7]

So what does that work out to per year for a FO?

Wankel

 

[dondk]

ABOUT 18k.. give or take... The same as the other 75% regionals out there...

 

[FL717]

ABOUT 18k.. give or take... The same as the other 75% regionals out there...

Exactly. You will still get some idiot on here that will be making 19k or maybe 20k a year blast you for your 18k "bringing down the industry". Pretty hypocritical don't you think.

My point to those who read this thread, it is absolutely criminal the compensation for the jobs you do... but there is not many options. You gotta choose to either make the plunge, and try for a better contract as an employee, or choose to get experience somewhere that you feel is appropriate.

I chose the former and it paid off. I certainly won't come on here and blast others for doing it. And its hysterical that Born2fly is taking his split personality stance... since he obviously is doing the exact same thing. Yet meanwhile he is slamming others for not "raising the bar"... a bar he is helping keep low by working at "grossly sub-par pay"... whatever that means.

 

[BORN2FLY]

OMG, FL717. You have got to be the biggest P.O.S. I've seen yet. My original "rant" merely stated that we are grossly underpaid (something you just said in a post today) and that we all need to step up to the plate to change things. What the hell is wrong with saying that??????? If some pilot groups got mentioned for not stepping up to the plate, then, so be it. The fact is, I never dished out any personal insults. You were the one that showed your class by taking it to that level. I was only expressing my concerns about lack of compensation and the need for ALL of us to do our part. If that is a "rant" in your book...then I'm guilty. I was only expressing my opinion and position. That's what a forum is for, "genius." You are SO hung up on my company and pay for some reason. Well, since it's SO important to you, I fly for Continental Express and the pay, I already gave you. But, since you are obviously forgetful, I take home about $1800-$2000 a month. Maybe you think I have no room to talk when I make ALL that money. I guess I should feel LUCKY? Well, sorry...I don't feel lucky. I feel like myself as well as my fellow pilots and other pilot groups are being taken advantage of. I know it's the "nature of the beast" right now. But, that doesn't make it easier to swallow. I'm almost 32 years old and can't afford to move forward (Wife, family, etc.) in life because I still can't make ends meet. Not to mention, the $51,000 in student loans that has been deferred for more than three years because I can't afford to start paying them back. So, forgive me for being a little frustrated. As far as talking about "shutting the place down", naturally, I don't "want" to see that happen. But, I would rather see the place close than continue not being paid what we deserve. We are nearing the last stretch of our negotiations. Hopefully, things will drastically change for the better. As far as your money that you're so quick to talk about is concerned...you can choke on your "6 figures"...just like you can choke on your sarcasm and unprovoked insults. Funny how easy it is for you to shell out personal attacks over a computer keyboard isn't it? You're such a tough guy. You must be SO proud.

What a "joke" you are.

 

[BORN2FLY]

Yet meanwhile he is slamming others for not "raising the bar"... a bar he is helping keep low by working at "grossly sub-par pay"... whatever that means.

I'm not helping keep the bar low...I'm in the fight right now. Talk to me after we have our new contract, "Mouth." As for "slamming" others, one of the companies I mentioned above just recently signed for roughly the same pay that we negotiated in 1997. Are there some leaps and bounds there that I should be commending? Like I said, "Mr. 6 figures" aka "Mouth." Keep running that mouth. It's probably what you do best.

 

[FL717]

Born2fly:

First off... congratulations on getting hired on at ConEx. I never applied there, but had several friends that did, and only two made the cut. You should be proud, as I know they only take the best. You are at one of the better regionals out there, though I'm sure you feel different, especially with the industry cruch around you, and the financial burden you have.

Second, I understand your dilemma, and sympathize for you and the financial hardship, and life interruptions. I HAVE been there. I understand your struggle. BUT... you will overcome and you too will eventually earn a good living in this industry. YOU made this choice... now try to ride it out, and don't get into arguments where you call out others at other carriers... they are in the same boat as you. Now the bad news... your comments (I called them rants) will not change anything. It only stirs up emotions, emotions that serve no purpose than to detract you and all the others that have to deal with the BS, from obtaining your/their goals. (I know nobody asked....just my opinion based on experience).

With the strong emotion you displayed here... you will do just fine. (Again... just my opinion).

Have a good evening. I mean that!

 

[BORN2FLY]

FL717, Thank you for your last post. And, you're right. I know that pretty much everyone is in the same boat. Normally, I would never get at all emotional about anything I read on this forum. But, my livelihood (or lack thereof) is my biggest concern right now. I felt a little "taken back" when I was being attacked and insulted for expressing my frustration. I wasn't trying to offend anyone in particular. I guess I should have seen the negativity coming after mentioning a couple of pilot groups by name. But, again, it's just frustrating to see nothing progress forward from an opportunity to change things for the better. I just wish everyone would take a stand because I think that's the only way it's going to work. Otherwise, even if we change things for us, we still have to worry about the other guy doing it for less, taking it away. If we don't do our part over here, I will "gladly" welcome everyone's criticism and displeasure. In fact, I'll be dishing it out too. However, I feel strongly that our pilot group is fed up and insistent on change. We shall see.

 

[e=mc2]

Pinnacle and Mesa are cut from the same cloth.
Pinnacle hired a bunch of rednecks and charged them for training. Now the rednecks make sure the FO pay is low and seek an average contract. Stupid is as stupid does.

As long as you guys believe the ALPA load of crap that regional airline pilots must be underpaid -- you will be.

As yourself the real question - If we corporate pilots can make a good wage flying 1 to 10 people around in a jet - why can't you flying 35 to 50 people?

Blah, Blah, Blah

 

[BORN2FLY]

Ask yourself the real question - If we corporate pilots can make a good wage flying 1 to 10 people around in a jet - why can't you flying 35 to 50 people?

Blah, Blah, Blah

My sentiments exactly, brother!

 

[flx757]

Pinnacle and Mesa are cut from the same cloth.
Pinnacle hired a bunch of rednecks and charged them for training. Now the rednecks make sure the FO pay is low and seek an average contract. Stupid is as stupid does.

As long as you guys believe the ALPA load of crap that regional airline pilots must be underpaid -- you will be.

As yourself the real question - If we corporate pilots can make a good wage flying 1 to 10 people around in a jet - why can't you flying 35 to 50 people?

It's not just Pinnacle and Mesa. It's ALL the regionals. Don't get so wrapped up in youself that you forget this fact. And it's not ALPA's fault, or the fault of "rednecks" either. (I will admit that's the first time I have heard this particular sector of the population blamed..... ). Although it IS much easier to blame others for your own problems.

The fact is that regional pilots are paid the obscene salaries they get because there are thousands of pilots lined up ready and willing to take these jobs for the pay that is offered. Plain and simple. Until this fact changes (and in the 25+ years that I have been in this business, this fact has NOT changed), nothing WILL change. As long as the supply remains adequate to fill these positions at the salary currently offered, then that's what the pay will continue to be.

 

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle and Mesa are cut from the same cloth.
Pinnacle hired a bunch of rednecks and charged them for training. Now the rednecks make sure the FO pay is low and seek an average contract. Stupid is as stupid does.

Cut from the same cloth? Obviously you don't know either companies history. When our FO contract rates were agreed upon we were on par with ALL of the carriers that we were comparable to. While our contract has many other shortcomings by today's standards it was a huge improvement over our previous deal. These improvements were also made under extreme duress with the sale of half our assets and jobs to Mesaba. Our negotiators did an excellent job and the pilots backed them up with a 100% strike authorization vote.

Pinnacle will open section 6 talks in 10 months. This time we will have a publicly owned airline with 1100+ pilots, 129 jet aircraft, and a route map that blankets the eastern half of the country instead of a broken down little prop airline that would have been worth more cut up into little pieces and sold for scrap.

As yourself the real question - If we corporate pilots can make a good wage flying 1 to 10 people around in a jet - why can't you flying 35 to 50 people?

This is a ridiculous question. Your comparing corporate flight departments that employ maybe a handful of pilots who are responsible for safeguarding the lives of the executives with airlines that employ thousands pilots transporting passengers that are largely irrelevant to the executives. By keeping the payscales high for corporate pilots they are ensuring that there is good competition for the job and some of the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company.

Adding 10-20-30 thousand to a few pilots salaries at the flight department will hardly even show up on the bottom line. The same justification is used for executive salaries. Add a million to Richard Anderson's yearly income and the end result on the bottom line gets lost in rounding errors. However, get your 50,000 member labor force to take a 10% paycut and you just made $700 million.

 

[BORN2FLY]

This is a ridiculous question. Your comparing corporate flight departments that employ maybe a handful of pilots who are responsible for safeguarding the lives of the executives with airlines that employ thousands pilots transporting passengers that are largely irreverent to the executives. By keeping the payscales high for corporate pilots they are ensuring that there is good competition for the job and some of the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company.

So, our passengers aren't as important as a CEO of some company? They don't deserve the same expertise to ensure the safest flight possible? That just doesn't make sense to me. How can someone argue that they "keep the payscales high for corporate pilots to ensure that the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company?" Does that mean that the same isn't true for an airline? I guess it's "ok" for "airline pilots" to NOT be "the most skilled?" Man, I hope you don't "truly" believe that.

 

[DoinTime]

So, our passengers aren't as important as a CEO of some company?

Not to the CEO they are not. If I were hiring someone to fly me around you'd better bet that I'm willing to spend more money than if I were hiring someone to fly you around. If you believe it is any other way you are truly naive.

 

[FL717]

I have posted numerous replies on this thread for a variety of reasons.

Fisrt off, I want to say that my tone towards Born2fly has changed. When I first saw his post days ago, I laughed and came down hard on him, dismissing him as being a board rouser that was just trying to flame away. When he didn't post any info on who he worked for, it validated this opinion in my mind, and I decided to argue with him for several days, just enjoying the spar with someone who I thought was flamebait. Unfortumately, last night, Born2fly posted a lengthy personal post about his life that just breaks a persons heart, and anyone who has been there can understand that. I feel for him, and cannot continue slamming this good person. Here is someone who is legitimately wearing his heart on his sleeve on this board, and posting an emotional reply to a topic that is affecting his life. I will always get into fights with people around here because it is fun and harmless. Fighting with someone legitimately in his position is not fun, and I'm sorry for that.

With that said... you have to agree to enter a job with a regional airline with certain expectations.

1. The analogy between corporate flight departments and airlines just is absurd. You cannot find anyone with a economic or financial background that will sustantiate the comparison in salaries. Apples to oranges I am afraid. If you cannot see and understand that, then there is no use in me even going into it. If you want corporate wages... go get into a corporate aviation position.. period.

2. The mantra to refuse to fly... is illegal. You cannot do that except after a myriad of labor/management negotiations and protocol. Then you must decide what it is worth. Comair struck.. and god bless them. Look at their contract relative to the industry. (And it still is out of whack.. in my opinion)

3. Finally... if you want to be an airline pilot, except for military, and a few corporate pilots that go straight to a big national or major, you will have to bide your time at "poor" wages. I'm sorry but it has ALWAYS been like that at "regional" and I do not see that changing. It does not mean I think its right... but it is a realistic expectation BEFORE you come down this road folks.

4. This is capitalism folks, and there will always be top end, lower end. You have to get what you can when you can during contract labor negotiations.

Good luck CoEx, I know we all hope you get Comair Plus+++ and that will just barely make it right. The 1st years pilots will still be mac&cheese'n it.

Its the unrealistic mantra on the board that gets me going. Be realistic, and don't attack other pilot groups. And don't start with the "we're gettin' the band back together" BS. It makes us all look like idiots.

Keep pluggin' gang. You will get there. This down cycle will lead to the big up cycle boom.. trust me.

 

[T-Gates]

I've said it before and I will say it again, refuse to fly, shut the airline down untill they decide to pay you what an airline pilot is worth. You all get together and stop flying, knock the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of anybody that tries to cross the line, it's as easy as that. That would put an end to the problem.

$18,000. is far from what an airline pilot is worth. A railroad conductor can hire out without anything but a high school education and can make $70,000. the first year for moving freight, and that's with an engineer to run the train for him.
You all are getting ripped and don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** .



Lieutenant General "Chesty" Puller
"We're surrounded....

that simplifies our problem."

Under a LABOR AGREEMENT it is ILLEGAL.....

They'd fire every last one of us and replace us with 700 other pilots in a heartbeat!

When we (PCL) go into negotiations, thats when we'll get whats due to us.

 

[Skaz]

did some research and the results are shocking, to say the least... a/c type with highest payscale is listed
airline name // a/c type// 1st year F/O pay//5th year F/O pay

PSA/US AIRWAYS EXPRESS // DORNIER328//16416//23328
COMAIR//CRJ100//19800//34200
MESA//CRJ100//18240//30096
ACA//JETSTREAM41//19800//24300
AIR WISCONSIN//BA146//22500//43200
ASA//CRJ100//17100//36000
CHATAUGA//ERJ135//18900//31500
PINNACLE/NW AIRLINK//CRJ200//18000//30600
SHUTTLE AMERICA//SAAB340//19800//23400
SKYWEST//CRJ200//17100//34200
COMMUTAIR//B190//17712//21648
US AIRWAYS/ ALLEGHENY//DASH8//21600//27900
US AIRWAYS EXPRESS/COLGAN AIR//B190D/16200//20700
CHICAGA EXPRESS//SAAB340//17100//23400

highest paying is Air Wisconsin, by a fair margin, also looks llike biggest aircraft. Stingiest b@stards are US Airways Express and Colgan air.

Lowest salary is less than what I'm getting now at a charter company in Africa. Sad to say thought, it is on par with what the regional guys over here seem to be getting.
One regional apparently pays new F/O in the order of R5000 per month, that equates to about 8571 USD , no not per month ....PER YEAR. So you guys arent the only ones having to grap your ankles