Pinnacle Pay Scale

[DoinTime]

Pinnacle and Mesa are cut from the same cloth.
Pinnacle hired a bunch of rednecks and charged them for training. Now the rednecks make sure the FO pay is low and seek an average contract. Stupid is as stupid does.

Cut from the same cloth? Obviously you don't know either companies history. When our FO contract rates were agreed upon we were on par with ALL of the carriers that we were comparable to. While our contract has many other shortcomings by today's standards it was a huge improvement over our previous deal. These improvements were also made under extreme duress with the sale of half our assets and jobs to Mesaba. Our negotiators did an excellent job and the pilots backed them up with a 100% strike authorization vote.

Pinnacle will open section 6 talks in 10 months. This time we will have a publicly owned airline with 1100+ pilots, 129 jet aircraft, and a route map that blankets the eastern half of the country instead of a broken down little prop airline that would have been worth more cut up into little pieces and sold for scrap.

As yourself the real question - If we corporate pilots can make a good wage flying 1 to 10 people around in a jet - why can't you flying 35 to 50 people?

This is a ridiculous question. Your comparing corporate flight departments that employ maybe a handful of pilots who are responsible for safeguarding the lives of the executives with airlines that employ thousands pilots transporting passengers that are largely irrelevant to the executives. By keeping the payscales high for corporate pilots they are ensuring that there is good competition for the job and some of the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company.

Adding 10-20-30 thousand to a few pilots salaries at the flight department will hardly even show up on the bottom line. The same justification is used for executive salaries. Add a million to Richard Anderson's yearly income and the end result on the bottom line gets lost in rounding errors. However, get your 50,000 member labor force to take a 10% paycut and you just made $700 million.

 

[BORN2FLY]

This is a ridiculous question. Your comparing corporate flight departments that employ maybe a handful of pilots who are responsible for safeguarding the lives of the executives with airlines that employ thousands pilots transporting passengers that are largely irreverent to the executives. By keeping the payscales high for corporate pilots they are ensuring that there is good competition for the job and some of the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company.

So, our passengers aren't as important as a CEO of some company? They don't deserve the same expertise to ensure the safest flight possible? That just doesn't make sense to me. How can someone argue that they "keep the payscales high for corporate pilots to ensure that the most skilled pilots will seek employment with their company?" Does that mean that the same isn't true for an airline? I guess it's "ok" for "airline pilots" to NOT be "the most skilled?" Man, I hope you don't "truly" believe that.

 

[DoinTime]

So, our passengers aren't as important as a CEO of some company?

Not to the CEO they are not. If I were hiring someone to fly me around you'd better bet that I'm willing to spend more money than if I were hiring someone to fly you around. If you believe it is any other way you are truly naive.

 

[FL717]

I have posted numerous replies on this thread for a variety of reasons.

Fisrt off, I want to say that my tone towards Born2fly has changed. When I first saw his post days ago, I laughed and came down hard on him, dismissing him as being a board rouser that was just trying to flame away. When he didn't post any info on who he worked for, it validated this opinion in my mind, and I decided to argue with him for several days, just enjoying the spar with someone who I thought was flamebait. Unfortumately, last night, Born2fly posted a lengthy personal post about his life that just breaks a persons heart, and anyone who has been there can understand that. I feel for him, and cannot continue slamming this good person. Here is someone who is legitimately wearing his heart on his sleeve on this board, and posting an emotional reply to a topic that is affecting his life. I will always get into fights with people around here because it is fun and harmless. Fighting with someone legitimately in his position is not fun, and I'm sorry for that.

With that said... you have to agree to enter a job with a regional airline with certain expectations.

1. The analogy between corporate flight departments and airlines just is absurd. You cannot find anyone with a economic or financial background that will sustantiate the comparison in salaries. Apples to oranges I am afraid. If you cannot see and understand that, then there is no use in me even going into it. If you want corporate wages... go get into a corporate aviation position.. period.

2. The mantra to refuse to fly... is illegal. You cannot do that except after a myriad of labor/management negotiations and protocol. Then you must decide what it is worth. Comair struck.. and god bless them. Look at their contract relative to the industry. (And it still is out of whack.. in my opinion)

3. Finally... if you want to be an airline pilot, except for military, and a few corporate pilots that go straight to a big national or major, you will have to bide your time at "poor" wages. I'm sorry but it has ALWAYS been like that at "regional" and I do not see that changing. It does not mean I think its right... but it is a realistic expectation BEFORE you come down this road folks.

4. This is capitalism folks, and there will always be top end, lower end. You have to get what you can when you can during contract labor negotiations.

Good luck CoEx, I know we all hope you get Comair Plus+++ and that will just barely make it right. The 1st years pilots will still be mac&cheese'n it.

Its the unrealistic mantra on the board that gets me going. Be realistic, and don't attack other pilot groups. And don't start with the "we're gettin' the band back together" BS. It makes us all look like idiots.

Keep pluggin' gang. You will get there. This down cycle will lead to the big up cycle boom.. trust me.

 

[T-Gates]

I've said it before and I will say it again, refuse to fly, shut the airline down untill they decide to pay you what an airline pilot is worth. You all get together and stop flying, knock the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** out of anybody that tries to cross the line, it's as easy as that. That would put an end to the problem.

$18,000. is far from what an airline pilot is worth. A railroad conductor can hire out without anything but a high school education and can make $70,000. the first year for moving freight, and that's with an engineer to run the train for him.
You all are getting ripped and don't give a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** .



Lieutenant General "Chesty" Puller
"We're surrounded....

that simplifies our problem."

Under a LABOR AGREEMENT it is ILLEGAL.....

They'd fire every last one of us and replace us with 700 other pilots in a heartbeat!

When we (PCL) go into negotiations, thats when we'll get whats due to us.

 

[Skaz]

did some research and the results are shocking, to say the least... a/c type with highest payscale is listed
airline name // a/c type// 1st year F/O pay//5th year F/O pay

PSA/US AIRWAYS EXPRESS // DORNIER328//16416//23328
COMAIR//CRJ100//19800//34200
MESA//CRJ100//18240//30096
ACA//JETSTREAM41//19800//24300
AIR WISCONSIN//BA146//22500//43200
ASA//CRJ100//17100//36000
CHATAUGA//ERJ135//18900//31500
PINNACLE/NW AIRLINK//CRJ200//18000//30600
SHUTTLE AMERICA//SAAB340//19800//23400
SKYWEST//CRJ200//17100//34200
COMMUTAIR//B190//17712//21648
US AIRWAYS/ ALLEGHENY//DASH8//21600//27900
US AIRWAYS EXPRESS/COLGAN AIR//B190D/16200//20700
CHICAGA EXPRESS//SAAB340//17100//23400

highest paying is Air Wisconsin, by a fair margin, also looks llike biggest aircraft. Stingiest b@stards are US Airways Express and Colgan air.

Lowest salary is less than what I'm getting now at a charter company in Africa. Sad to say thought, it is on par with what the regional guys over here seem to be getting.
One regional apparently pays new F/O in the order of R5000 per month, that equates to about 8571 USD , no not per month ....PER YEAR. So you guys arent the only ones having to grap your ankles