Pinnacle: Northwest shopping for bidders on Airlink fleet

[TinGoose1]

And not bend them. I think that is going to be a consideration as well.

 

[amcnd]

I think Mesa , CHQ and SkyWest are in good postion. Look at Mesaba they have 3 CRJ's in the factory that wont be delivered, It doesnt look to good for them. It going to be a company that can get a large order of airplanes in a short time frame. Look for someone that already has options for airframes.

 

[FreezinginMN]

Things are very unpredictable right now. Mostly because it is a poker/chess game and you never know what NWA managment wants. Airline managment is directly motivated by politics and emotion and only indirectly by money. They are motivated to do what is in their own personal best interest and not NWAs. This is a fact of human nature and is the secret of any good salesman.

NWA managment is currently (and always has) been telling NWA ALPA NEWCO will be "76 to 100" seaters. Therefore any bidding on 76 seats or less is NOT NEWCO and nothing new. They want 76 and below to be bid on by regionals. Steenland said only a few weeks ago he sees Mesaba (specifically using their name) possibly flying 70 seaters and he also mentioned AVROS with 74 seats under new managment (I still haven't figured that one out). He said this to a group of NWA pilots. Maybe this is why Mesaba is trying so hard for pay cuts. Or maybe Steenland is trying to spread rumors.

NWA ALPA is strongly against the regionals flying 70 seaters and this is the biggest issue for negotiations. Maybe NWA managment is trying to get NWA ALPA to go as low as possible to maintain the 70+ seat flying and will use the regional bids from Mesa/Pinnacle/etc as leverage during negotions.

 

[blackbox]

I heard there is a 5 year waiting list for the E-170.

 

[Detroitpilot22]

dont they still have to get rid of scope clause before anything like this happens.

 

[FlyingFerris]

I heard there is a 5 year waiting list for the E-170.

After going behind the Brazilians back and secure a huge order for CRJ's from the Candanians, I don't think NWA can bargin for crazy Ed's rock bottom prices on Emb170's from a position of strength. Most likely the 76 seater would be CRJ900 with a first cabin ala the Avro.

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Why dont somebody just offer to fly them for free, and WIN that race!uke:

 

[tie1on]

Just remember you guys wanted to fly jets, and you have been willing to fly for nothing in the past. Just remember the past, if you do not learn from it you will repeat it. this is a comcessionary environment, not improvement. Management will use the mesa's of world because of price and stock price options for them. they don't care about you. I am not trying to piss you off, but this is the way it is.

The major airlines are shrinking not expanding, so you might want to think of other career options if you don't want to work for 35K for the rest of you of your life. Oh yea you must fund your own 401k on that.

Good luck on the race to the bottom

 

[PCL_128]

dont they still have to get rid of scope clause before anything like this happens.

Yes they do. I guess Northwest management just wants to get started early.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Just remember you guys wanted to fly jets, and you have been willing to fly for nothing in the past. Just remember the past, if you do not learn from it you will repeat it. this is a comcessionary environment, not improvement. Management will use the mesa's of world because of price and stock price options for them. they don't care about you. I am not trying to piss you off, but this is the way it is.

The major airlines are shrinking not expanding, so you might want to think of other career options if you don't want to work for 35K for the rest of you of your life. Oh yea you must fund your own 401k on that.

Good luck on the race to the bottom

Hold on a second, these airplanes are out of the scope agreement. That hasn't been settled. This is just a way to screw pinnacle how they screwed mesaba. In 6 months, NWA is going to be a very different beast. NewCo is a company northwest is using as levelage to buy more aircraft and shed debt. They need companies with large amounts of cash on hand. Both 9E and XJ have this, although XJ is in a better position right now. Remember NewCo serves many purposes. Here is the list:

1. Get out of the scope agreement of NWA pilots to reduce labor costs.
2. Explore the LCC market to allow strong competion between NWA and the LCC's
3. Allow NewCo to take upon its self a huge amount of debt NWA does not have to pay.
4. The debt NWA will not incur as a result of NewCo will be used to expand the cargo operation at NWA two fold or more.
5. Replace aging DC-9 fleet in almost a 1.25 to 1 exchange(more airplanes).
6. Use NewCo low cost advantage, as a revenue generater to expand the international fleet.
7. Form GroundCo to allow for lower labor costs.
8. Allow the Hub and Spoke feeder model to remain viable.

This is the management wish list. It's an expansion plan, which will almost double the size of the NWA fleet. The $64,000 question is who are the pilots going to be. Since you guys are fighting amoungst youselves it really gives management the upper hand.

 

[dondk]

As much as I would like to see XJ get it, I doubt they will. XJ has a rock solid scope against Big Sky (the only certificate that could do 70 flying). XJ is in BK, can't see them selling to a judge that they can grow and take on new flying while at the same time cutting costs to be more profitable. Sort of why enter BK in the first place.

Mesa.. spread too thin, too many eggs in the basket and I can't see them covering the all the additional flying.

Skywest, and CHQ, maybe as players...

Besides coming down to who had the options or airframes it will also come down to who can staff it. Many regionals are scrambling for body's in the right seat, so a Jet 4 Job's is also realistic with NWA putting 1000+ on the street.

Finally... NWA is the ultimate puppet master, the company winning the bid will be a company that will allow NWA to control everything on their side of the house.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

The bankruptcy has nothing to do with anything. they filed on an event that hasn't even taken place yet. NWA is simply looking for a company that has a lot of cash on hand and has no problem going into extreme debt. They are not looking to buy the 100 seat a/c for the company, they are looking for a company to buy them the airplanes. Thats why if the scope contract at NWA gets abolished 9E/XJ can kiss their asses goodbye.

 

[fly4ever]

dondk,

Where do you get that Big Sky is the only certificate that can do 70 flying? Our new ASA with NW allows us to bid on other flying with them and with other airlines (yeah, I know, fat chance NW will allow that).

 

[dondk]

dondk,

Where do you get that Big Sky is the only certificate that can do 70 flying? Our new ASA with NW allows us to bid on other flying with them and with other airlines (yeah, I know, fat chance NW will allow that).

My bad, I did not mean XJ could not fly 70+ seat's. I meant to say the "better" scenario would be Big Sky to fly them for NWA. Although XJ has scope that restricts Big Sky.

We can also fly bigger than 50 once we meet all the criteria NWA set, It just happens to be almost impossible to accomplish. This is what I meant by NWA wants total control, so whomever joins the NWA family better be ready, willing and able to bend over.

 

[dondk]

The bankruptcy has nothing to do with anything. they filed on an event that hasn't even taken place yet. NWA is simply looking for a company that has a lot of cash on hand and has no problem going into extreme debt. They are not looking to buy the 100 seat a/c for the company, they are looking for a company to buy them the airplanes. Thats why if the scope contract at NWA gets abolished 9E/XJ can kiss their asses goodbye.

I don't get this.. XJ is in BK, so they can suddenly under XJ's certificate go out and buy 100+ jets with up to76 seats? The XJ BK judge will see going into further debt a good thing to do to come out of BK? That is why I mentioned Big Sky, under MAIR (who has the $$$) but restriced by XJ scope.

I see this as Midatlantic II... get a second certificate (somewhere), keep the $$$ seperate (on paper), and staff from within to maintain.

9E has a snowball's chance, we have the second certificate, we have "some" $$$, but we can't staff ourselves less any additonal flying.

Other outside entities (Skywest, CHQ and others), if they can quickly add or have the a/c already. Then they can be in a decent position provided they can staff and more importantly give control to NWA. This is considering scope relief from NWA ALPA.

 

[N590MA]

Don't forget NWA owns a chunk of Mesaba and Pinnacle. By moving the flying to either of us they help to boost their own $$$. This is not to say they wouldn't accept a 3rd existing regional, but, I personally doubt they want another regional that they don't own a chunk of.
I would personally like to see mainline fly everything 71 seats and up, 9E and XJ anything 70 and under. I don't want any kind of flow up/back, I would just as soon make my own way to a mainline.

 

[fly4ever]

dondk,

Thanks for the follow up. I agree with you on most of the other points you were making. NWA wants total control of their feed - that probably won't change. You have to remember that our "debt" is manufactured by our holding company. They can make us look like the rich kid on the block just as quickly as they have made us appear to be poor. Airline managements have mastered the shell game.

We have to support each other or we will end up with nothing.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

You see they don't want to lose pilots. It's the old bait and switch tactic. Hey guys we could operate as NewCo with these rates(insult to NWA pilot, looks good to XJ pilot) or we can operate with our old props at an imposed contract. Whats it going to be? Don't fall for it, it's BS.

 

[RP170]

I heard there is a 5 year waiting list for the E-170.

Unless you are Republic.

 

[fly4ever]

RP170,

The only 170s that Republic is receiving now are from Mid-Atlantic (25). There is a waiting list from the factory so quit your bragging.