Pinnacle Near Top of Their Game in January '09 On-Time Performance

[Smarta$$]

This is the result of having a pilot group full of followers and not leaders. Change can only come if there are more leaders than followers. Don't take this as a personal attack. But you know better than anyone what kind of pilot group you have as a result of the massive hiring boom Pinnacle experienced for a few years. You hired hundreds of pilots from the gutter. Pilot factories kicking out pilots left and right to make your HR happy so they could staff the right seat of that lawn dart as fast as possible.
The result: a weak pilot group with a sub-part, decade-old, weak contract with unacceptable work rules. There is really no room for debate on the subject. The facts are overwhelming to back up these examples. And excuses only continue to delay the process of change. Once the pilot group is united and commited to working together for change, good things can start to happen. This, in my opinion will probably not happen due to the cancer that plagues your pilot group ( the Gulfstream and Jet U guys). Those characters are a different breed and don't get it. This is why your contract is in the current state it's in. Period.

I really don't have the energy to tell you your an idiot, again.

Just a few things, we have the highest strike vote in the history of ALPA, We have not accepted any of the companies lame contract offers, we have tried to take them to task on all the contract violations, we didn't cave in to keep our 15 jets from going to your company and I have seen COUNTLESS UND pilots that have no spine to stand up to the company.

While I am no fan of the Jet U and Gulfstream programs, and will not defend them, I have seen cowards from all backgrounds. You have MORE THAN a few COMPLETE TOOLBOXES from your hiring spree over the last few years.

On a different note, if we had the "Great Anointed Mesaba" pilot group with the same 9E mismanagement and the same labor hating government that we have had, how SPECIFICALLY would we have a new contract by now?

 

[Smarta$$]

Maybe it's time for someone to start airing our dirty laundry. Maybe then something will get done. The MEC tries to bury all dissent with nasty little threats and whispers of management is listening. When in reality, it's just a tactic to keep everyone in lock step as we march in place.

Wow, you really are a pathetic little man, or woman.

 

[Flyprdu]

Wow, you really are a pathetic little man, or woman.

That hurts, smarta$$.. That really hurts.

 

[Smarta$$]

It's out there. And yeah, it's probably a minority viewpoint... which is a shame. That explains why we've gone 5 years without even the hint of a new contract.

And the reason why you don't hear anything is because no one feels they have a voice in this. Any speaking up is immediately crushed, just like you're doing to me now.

So what happens is people grow apathetic. Apathetic to management and their continuing abuses. Apathetic to the union's impotence to stop it. People just give up.

I don't remember you actually putting forward a thoughtful, effective and legal solution.

Lets hear it?

 

[DTWFO]

I really don't have the energy to tell you your an idiot, again.

Just a few things, we have the highest strike vote in the history of ALPA, We have not accepted any of the companies lame contract offers, we have tried to take them to task on all the contract violations, we didn't cave in to keep our 15 jets from going to your company and I have seen COUNTLESS UND pilots that have no spine to stand up to the company.

While I am no fan of the Jet U and Gulfstream programs, and will not defend them, I have seen cowards from all backgrounds. You have MORE THAN a few COMPLETE TOOLBOXES from your hiring spree over the last few years.

On a different note, if we had the "Great Anointed Mesaba" pilot group with the same 9E mismanagement and the same labor hating government that we have had, how SPECIFICALLY would we have a new contract by now?

Ha ha, so true!

 

[DoinTime]

I will PM you.

You expect a lot of things that are blatantly illegal. I'm not sure if you just don't know they are illegal or if you just don't care. If you have ever talked to Rep I'm sure they gave you the same speech I got but our management group would sue the crap out of us for any of this stuff. Heck, they sue us for things we aren't guilty of.

Take a look at the jam the United pilots have already gotten themselves into and they aren't even in negotiations yet.

 

[Flyprdu]

You expect a lot of things that are blatantly illegal. I'm not sure if you just don't know they are illegal or if you just don't care. If you have ever talked to Rep I'm sure they gave you the same speech I got but our management group would sue the crap out of us for any of this stuff. Heck, they sue us for things we aren't guilty of.

Take a look at the jam the United pilots have already gotten themselves into and they aren't even in negotiations yet.

You're right. Let's not do anything. I'm comfortable enough with what little scraps we have. We don't deserve anything more, nor should we test the threshold.

Management has us beat. We are all pissing our pants for fear of a lawsuit.

 

[SEVEN]

I really don't have the energy to tell you your an idiot, again.

If you want to have a mature back and forth debate/discussion, we can have it. But unfortunately you have to begin your ramblings with this kind of useless crap. I'll say it again; STOP posting on this forum if all you're going to do is act like my 5 year old and name call. And please don't respond to this post unless it begins with an apology to me and the rest of the readers of this thread.
Good Day.

 

[DoinTime]

You're right. Let's not do anything. I'm comfortable enough with what little scraps we have. We don't deserve anything more, nor should we test the threshold.

Do you have to be told what to do for everything in your life? If you think picking up open time is bad why don't you promote that position? If you think dropping the brake when you clearly aren't ready to push is bad why don't you promote that position? Why do you need to hear it from someone else to make it something worth sticking your neck out for? Are you afraid of taking on the personal liability for opening your mouth?

Management has us beat. We are all pissing our pants for fear of a lawsuit.

Do you think a lawsuit filled by the company that had significant merit would do anything positive for the pilot group or our contract negotiations?

Management doesn't have our MEC beat. They've beat people like who are incapable of doing what countless generations of Unionists before us have done in turbulent times. STICK TOGETHER AND TAKE PERSONAL ACTION. This is not our MEC's fight and it is not ALPA National's fight. This is the fight of ALL Pinnacle pilots and it can not be won unless the pilot group engages themselves. People like you spewing your misplaced and uneducated anger set us all back so I would appreciate it if you would either get educated or shut up. Every day that goes by I lose money because of people like you.

 

[Smarta$$]

If you want to have a mature back and forth debate/discussion, we can have it. But unfortunately you have to begin your ramblings with this kind of useless crap. I'll say it again; STOP posting on this forum if all you're going to do is act like my 5 year old and name call. And please don't respond to this post unless it begins with an apology to me and the rest of the readers of this thread.
Good Day.

While I did call you a name, YOU have been disrespectful, incidiary and derogatory toward my pilot group.

One is not worse than the other. And as expected, you did not answer my question.

Thus, you will be waiting a long time for an apology from me.

 

[1.3XVso]

Thanks

Thanks to all PCL company *************************s for bending over for uncle phil and his cronies.. Also congrats on giving them there bonuses..

 

[SEVEN]

On a different note, if we had the "Great Anointed Mesaba" pilot group with the same 9E mismanagement and the same labor hating government that we have had, how SPECIFICALLY would we have a new contract by now?

I'll take a stab, but you have to promise to stop name calling in the majority of your posts with those whom you don't agree.
The question you posed is almost impossible to answer. To correct you first; Mesaba's pilot group is far from "anointed." If you saw the last batch of low time wonders you would understand. There are of few of those that slipped through the HR hiring crack when we couldn't fill seats fast enough. Thank God the days of hiring guys with less than 1000 hrs total time are history. With that being said, The majority of pilots at Mesaba would rather be working at Home Depot than work for Pinnacle. That's a Fact. It's a different culture at Mesaba. Our pilot group takes pride in our safety record and our professionalism. For about 2-3 years at Pinnacle it was one violation after accident after incident. Over and over and over and over and over again. Regan National, the mountains of Montana, the overfly with F16's in DTW, the off roading in MKE, the winter wonderland in TVC, and of course and Jefferson City accident.
Now that the crazy hiring boom has ended for 9E, we have seen a ruduction of crazy incidents. Thank God.
So what's my point? You can't compare apples and oranges. You would not have our pilot group with your management. So it's hard to rationalize that situation. But if it was the case, our pilots would have quit during day 5 of indoc once they saw what a cluster F your training department was over the last few years.
Hope this helps you understand the perspective Mesaba pilots have about 9E. We don't despise the individual pilot, just what the whole pilot group stands for and the foundation from which it stems.
Clear as mud? I hope so.

 

[RJLoser]

Did Mesaba not just put a 900 off the runway in DTW? Did your "professional" pilot group take pride in that?

 

[DoinTime]

It's a different culture at Mesaba. Our pilot group takes pride in our safety record and our professionalism.

Its strange how such a strong safety culture breeds a bunch of grown men who like to corn hole little boys.

 

[SEVEN]

Did Mesaba not just put a 900 off the runway in DTW? Did your "professional" pilot group take pride in that?

Point taken. I figured this would come up. Let me restate my previous point: The "vast majority" of XJ pilots take pride in our safety record and professionalism. I am still deeply disapointed that we had a brand new airplane slide off the runway for "whatever" reason. Pilot error? Of course. Would this incident have happened if another crew had been piloting the aircraft that day? Probably not. There were many 900's landing and taxiing safely off runway 22R that morning. But my other points in my previous post were accurate and spot on.

 

[RJLoser]

How about blowing out the windows of the employee bus by doing cross bleed starts at the gate!!??

I like the majority of XJ guys but....ever heard of the glass house and throwing rocks?

 

[1.3XVso]

perfect

I'll take a stab, but you have to promise to stop name calling in the majority of your posts with those whom you don't agree.
The question you posed is almost impossible to answer. To correct you first; Mesaba's pilot group is far from "anointed." If you saw the last batch of low time wonders you would understand. There are of few of those that slipped through the HR hiring crack when we couldn't fill seats fast enough. Thank God the days of hiring guys with less than 1000 hrs total time are history. With that being said, The majority of pilots at Mesaba would rather be working at Home Depot than work for Pinnacle. That's a Fact. It's a different culture at Mesaba. Our pilot group takes pride in our safety record and our professionalism. For about 2-3 years at Pinnacle it was one violation after accident after incident. Over and over and over and over and over again. Regan National, the mountains of Montana, the overfly with F16's in DTW, the off roading in MKE, the winter wonderland in TVC, and of course and Jefferson City accident.
Now that the crazy hiring boom has ended for 9E, we have seen a ruduction of crazy incidents. Thank God.
So what's my point? You can't compare apples and oranges. You would not have our pilot group with your management. So it's hard to rationalize that situation. But if it was the case, our pilots would have quit during day 5 of indoc once they saw what a cluster F your training department was over the last few years.
Hope this helps you understand the perspective Mesaba pilots have about 9E. We don't despise the individual pilot, just what the whole pilot group stands for and the foundation from which it stems.
Clear as mud? I hope so.

Your the perfect canidate to nominate for the typical mesaba mo fo. Your the perfect example to hit with you seven kicks in your ass for being such a dooooosh bag. Faggg.

 

[dondk]

I'll take a stab, but you have to promise to stop name calling in the majority of your posts with those whom you don't agree.
The question you posed is almost impossible to answer. To correct you first; Mesaba's pilot group is far from "anointed." If you saw the last batch of low time wonders you would understand. There are of few of those that slipped through the HR hiring crack when we couldn't fill seats fast enough. Thank God the days of hiring guys with less than 1000 hrs total time are history. With that being said, The majority of pilots at Mesaba would rather be working at Home Depot than work for Pinnacle. That's a Fact. It's a different culture at Mesaba. Our pilot group takes pride in our safety record and our professionalism. For about 2-3 years at Pinnacle it was one violation after accident after incident. Over and over and over and over and over again. Regan National, the mountains of Montana, the overfly with F16's in DTW, the off roading in MKE, the winter wonderland in TVC, and of course and Jefferson City accident.
Now that the crazy hiring boom has ended for 9E, we have seen a ruduction of crazy incidents. Thank God.
So what's my point? You can't compare apples and oranges. You would not have our pilot group with your management. So it's hard to rationalize that situation. But if it was the case, our pilots would have quit during day 5 of indoc once they saw what a cluster F your training department was over the last few years.
Hope this helps you understand the perspective Mesaba pilots have about 9E. We don't despise the individual pilot, just what the whole pilot group stands for and the foundation from which it stems.
Clear as mud? I hope so.

You have a point but you appear to be throwing ALL the 9E pilots under the bus with your statement.
The accident/incident/violation really has very little to do with the pilot "group". Making that statement is basically saying all 9E pilots are the same as those in the events you mention.

the ONE thing you did get right was It's a different culture at Mesaba , the question to ask is why? it is really the pilots? or perhaps the culture of the company? XJ while it does not have the list if incidents, does have several pilots that I believe are incarcerated. ironically all for the same thing too (what's the odds of that?). Regardless, the XJ pilot group and the 9E pilot groups are basically the same... a group of pilots that are trying to make a living. What makes them different is the environment they operate in. To blame the pilot group is wrong, you must blame the environment and support the pilot group.

 

[SEVEN]

You have a point but you appear to be throwing ALL the 9E pilots under the bus with your statement.
The accident/incident/violation really has very little to do with the pilot "group". Making that statement is basically saying all 9E pilots are the same as those in the events you mention.

the ONE thing you did get right was It's a different culture at Mesaba , the question to ask is why? it is really the pilots? or perhaps the culture of the company? XJ while it does not have the list if incidents, does have several pilots that I believe are incarcerated. ironically all for the same thing too (what's the odds of that?). Regardless, the XJ pilot group and the 9E pilot groups are basically the same... a group of pilots that are trying to make a living. What makes them different is the environment they operate in. To blame the pilot group is wrong, you must blame the environment and support the pilot group.

I disagree with your post/opinion. But I respect your view.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

There are some WEIRD guys over at XJ. Every airline has a couple here or there, but it is quite the different culture over there.

They always seemed to walk around the halls like they were the hottest sh!t around... it was especially noticable when we shared the hall with them.


dondk hit the nail on the head with his summary.