Pinnacle flap procedure?

[Chosen One]

I was curious if it's normal procedure for you guys to bring your flaps to takeoff setting as you're cleared into position? Possibly after de-icing? I was in BOS yesterday behind a flagshipper who was holding short with flaps at 0. I thought for sure they must have missed it or something, so when he was cleared on the hold, I mentioned it over the radio as an FYI. They replied back with "we know" and then dropped the flaps. Is that Pinnacle procedure? Seems that would be a lousy time to find out you have a burned out flap motor.

 

[flying4food]

When they bumped the power up, b!tchen bob would have given them a config warning!!

 

[xjcaptain]

.....unless the warning system was deferred like happened to NWA in DTW.

 

[chperplt]

Anyone ever ferry with the flaps stuck at 20? 215 and below is WAY TOO SLOW!!!

 

[Donsa320]

.....unless the warning system was deferred like happened to NWA in DTW.

I always wonder where you guys get this stuff from; the CAWS system was not deferred. It was never proven as to why it did not work, that is, either the circuit breaker had tripped, was pulled or had varnished contacts...a fairly common problem with that particular type of circuit breaker.

Running some checklists would have helped also. None were called for after engine start and none were accomplished.

 

[xjcaptain]

I thought it was deferred, however maybe I should have said "inoperative" as that may have been more precise. Point is that total dependance on automated warning systems will not keep you bacon out of the fire, only good SOP.

 

[shamrock]

Anyone ever ferry with the flaps stuck at 20? 215 and below is WAY TOO SLOW!!!

Had a "Flaps Fail" at 0 turning final at TOL. Spent basically the whole next day waiting for a mechanic to fix it but ended up doing TOL-MCN at flaps 20. The speed wasn't that bad but the pitch attitude was definitely strange. Felt like I was on final for 500 miles.

 

[chperplt]

Felt like I was on final for 500 miles

Yea, that it did!!

The ferry procedure calls for avoiding mod or greater turb.. We were getting bounced around pretty good. A nice crosswind made for an interesting landing as well.

 

[crocodile]

Hey Chosen One,

I was the FO on that flight. Typical procedure is to set the flaps for TO during the taxi. However, there was quite a bit of slush/wet snow on the ramp/taxiways that day. The Captain wanted to keep the flaps retracted until we were on the relatively clean runway to avoid collecting slush in the flap wells. So that was the reasoning behind what you saw.

Thanks for the heads-up though. It's nice to know other crews will give a shout if they see something that doesn't look right. Take care.

 

[PCL_128]

Typical procedure is to set the flaps for TO during the taxi. However, there was quite a bit of slush/wet snow on the ramp/taxiways that day. The Captain wanted to keep the flaps retracted until we were on the relatively clean runway to avoid collecting slush in the flap wells.

Be very careful doing this. It's not approved in our FCOM and FOM. When you're not used to putting the flaps down at that point, you can easily forget until you get a CONFIG FLAPS warning when you advance the thrust levers.

 

[172driver]

Don't know if it applies to you guys but we are required to visually verify flaps set to the t/o position to avoid a possible split/twist problem.

 

[dasmith]

In the CRJ, a config flaps msg is never deferred. And its a good reason to hold brakes until you get some power up, so that its a simple pull the throttle to zero then set flaps, then try again. Otherwise you're an aborted takeoff with explanations-a-plenty.

 

[Lear70]

Actually... Technically the flaps are required to be set in the takeoff position PRIOR to deicing (along with the stab trim). Also, the takeoff profile calls for the brakes to be held and power to be initially applied to (approximately) 70% (gives time for the engines to spool up so they don't come up assymetrically at higher thrust settings), then the brakes released as takeoff power is added. In this scenario, the takeoff configuration warning would come in the first 100 feet of the takeoff roll, if not even before the brakes are released. The takeoff configuration is one of the main reasons the profile is written that way.

The Captain should have known better, but there are always oversights - that's why there's two people up there. When you know something's not going according to SOP's, SPEAK UP, have a plan that's safe and LEGAL, not only by the FAR's but also the FOM/FCOM, then stick to it. We weren't there but it doesn't sound like too many people agree with the plan that was executed, and I doubt our Check Airmen would have signed off on the flaps not being extended for the deicing process and the taxi thereafter.

 

[Chosen One]

Thanks for the heads-up though. It's nice to know other crews will give a shout if they see something that doesn't look right. Take care.

No worries, we certainly all forget stuff. Just being that "third pair of eyes" just in case it wasn't intentional. See you out there.

 

[crocodile]

When you're not used to putting the flaps down at that point, you can easily forget until you get a CONFIG FLAPS warning when you advance the thrust levers.

You make a good point, one that was considered when this was briefed. However, I felt there were sufficient checks in place to prevent us from attempting a TO with the flaps retracted. I (and most others I have flown with) check for and call "TOTO, Takeoff Config OK, Carrots (flex or full), Flaps, Fuel" when we are cleared onto the runway. As a reminder, I also rested my hand on the flap selector throughout the taxi. Then, there was b!tchin' bob to yell at us if we completely pooched things up. After considering these things, I decided not to object.

I doubt our Check Airmen would have signed off on the flaps not being extended for the deicing process and the taxi thereafter.

For clarification, we were deiced at the gate with flaps 20 and the stab trim set for TO. The flaps were then retracted for the taxi and extended once again on the runway.

 

[CaptainBrazilia]

Technically the flaps are required to be set in the takeoff position PRIOR to deicing...

That procedure (I imagine) would vary from airline to airline. Our procedure calls for deicing with flaps up.

 

[Sean]

flaps

Be very careful doing this. It's not approved in our FCOM and FOM. When you're not used to putting the flaps down at that point, you can easily forget until you get a CONFIG FLAPS warning when you advance the thrust levers.
***Actually it is approved in our FOM. I just read the other day, that in certain conditions it would be wise to taxi with the flaps up (snow, ice, etc) then when clear of debris put the flaps down.



I also read that if landing in snow, ice etc... it is also wise not to put the flaps up, only to 20 and do a good post flight check to make sure ice and snow are not all over the bute doors...if so, leave them at flaps 20 and call for the ice man.