pinnacle class cancelled

[psycho]

Only 9E could go off a runway, oops forgot about the Eagle SAAB going off a dry runway in NYC. Only 9E could fall out of the sky, oops, forgot about Eagle holding in ice until they became a smoking hole in the ground. Missing a mountain in Helena, better than hitting one in Cali. 9E flies into Little Rock every day, have yet to destroy an airplane and several lives there. Never snapped a tail off in NYC either. Point is if you folks wanna talk hull losses and bonehead maneuvers I got lots of stories too. Lets not forget Eagle was a pioneer in PFT also. Peace Out

 

[Rook]

Only 9E could go off a runway, oops forgot about the Eagle SAAB going off a dry runway in NYC. Only 9E could fall out of the sky, oops, forgot about Eagle holding in ice until they became a smoking hole in the ground. Missing a mountain in Helena, better than hitting one in Cali. 9E flies into Little Rock every day, have yet to destroy an airplane and several lives there. Never snapped a tail off in NYC either. Piont is if you folks wanna talk hull losses and bonehead maneuvers I got lots of stories too. Lets not forget Eagle was a pioneer in PFT also. Peace Out

Not the most tactful response but we get the gist of the idea. It's not necessarry to point fingers. We're trying to learn from our mistakes so we don't make them again.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Who first coined the quote:

"Whom the gods would destroy, they first give hubris?"

Larry the Cable Guy... I think.

Shy

 

[8HRRULE]

Only 9E could go off a runway, oops forgot about the Eagle SAAB going off a dry runway in NYC. Only 9E could fall out of the sky, oops, forgot about Eagle holding in ice until they became a smoking hole in the ground. Missing a mountain in Helena, better than hitting one in Cali. 9E flies into Little Rock every day, have yet to destroy an airplane and several lives there. Never snapped a tail off in NYC either. Point is if you folks wanna talk hull losses and bonehead maneuvers I got lots of stories too. Lets not forget Eagle was a pioneer in PFT also. Peace Out

Good point. But I think if you looked at the ratio of AMR aircraft/hull loss versus 9E Aircraft/hull loss it might paint a slightly different picture.

 

[HOURBUILDER]

I understand you guys who instructed are pissed off to see guys with 500 hours get a job flying a jet while we need 1500 hours.
But I have a friend who went to gulfstream and actually got a job with 500 hours at Pinnacle and he is a very good pilot, and i beleive that the only thing we can be pissed of at is the fact that they paid for the job, but you cant put their abilities in question.
They went through a difficult training during 4 months, while we were building hours flight instructing. Experience is not only in the sky flying but also on the ground learning aviation systems, regulations etc....
This is why you often have in Europe guys with 300 hours in the right seat of airliner jets, But maybe 2000 hours of theory and ground school.
People shoul dstop judging guys simply on the amount of hour flown but on the uality of the hours!!!!!!
I am a flight instructor, I enjoy it, but honestly after 400 hours dual given it is becoming a little boring and repetitive.

 

[AvroJockey]

I understand you guys who instructed are pissed off to see guys with 500 hours get a job flying a jet while we need 1500 hours.
But I have a friend who went to gulfstream and actually got a job with 500 hours at Pinnacle and he is a very good pilot, and i beleive that the only thing we can be pissed of at is the fact that they paid for the job, but you cant put their abilities in question.
They went through a difficult training during 4 months, while we were building hours flight instructing. Experience is not only in the sky flying but also on the ground learning aviation systems, regulations etc....
This is why you often have in Europe guys with 300 hours in the right seat of airliner jets, But maybe 2000 hours of theory and ground school.
People shoul dstop judging guys simply on the amount of hour flown but on the uality of the hours!!!!!!
I am a flight instructor, I enjoy it, but honestly after 400 hours dual given it is becoming a little boring and repetitive.

Your right about quality, but I highly doubt your buddy has 500 hours in a Citation X at FL410, or 500 hours dealing with winter weather, or 500 hours in mountainess terrain. I don't care how good a stick your friend is, you can't justify that as experience and knowledge, which is used for excellent judgment. I would take a 500 hour pilot over a 5000 hour pilot too, but only if it was 500 hours of jet time, winter or mountain flying as opposed to 5000 hours flight instructing in AZ or FL.

I have over 6000 hours of total flight I still learn something everyday, and suppose I will for the rest of my career. To say you’re ready to fly a jet airliner after 400 hours of dual given because your bored is arrogant and naïve.

 

[8HRRULE]

Your right about quality, but I highly doubt your buddy has 500 hours in a Citation X at FL410, or 500 hours dealing with winter weather, or 500 hours in mountainess terrain. I don't care how good a stick your friend is, you can't justify that as experience and knowledge, which is used for excellent judgment. I would take a 500 hour pilot over a 5000 hour pilot too, but only if it was 500 hours of jet time, winter or mountain flying as opposed to 5000 hours flight instructing in AZ or FL.

I have over 6000 hours of total flight I still learn something everyday, and suppose I will for the rest of my career. To say you’re ready to fly a jet airliner after 400 hours of dual given because your bored is arrogant and naïve.

PFT is the most intense and rigorous training that you can recieve outside of the military. Personally, I think that it parallels or exceeds the training of military pilots. Like it or not, a 500 hr PFT'er is a better pilot than a 1500hr non-PFT'er.

 

[pianoman]

Yup. You learn all kinds of ways to put the gear up and down and agree with the captain. Don't forget getting the ATIS and talking on the radio!

 

[freightrash]

.dgyddgfhdh

 

[8HRRULE]

Yup. You learn all kinds of ways to put the gear up and down and agree with the captain. Don't forget getting the ATIS and talking on the radio!

Im speaking of real world flying skills and aeronautical decision making. These are the advantages of PFT.

 

[Ralgha]

Im speaking of real world flying skills and aeronautical decision making. These are the advantages of PFT.

Sorry bud, those two things come from experience, not training, no matter how good it is.

 

[8HRRULE]

Sorry bud, those two things come from experience, not training, no matter how good it is.

Yes, but experience is no substitute for training, however, training can substitute for experience.

 

[donaldd]

I'm sorry Hourbuilder, but I agree with AvroJockey that your statement about experience is pretty naive. Looking back at my flying career--the period where I probably learned the most was the first 500hrs as a flight instructor. I know for a fact that going to GIA and spending 3 months flying around southern FL would not even begin to replace the experience and knowledge that I gained as an instructor and charter pilot prior to getting hired at a regional.

I have flown with quite a few 500hr Gulfstreamers(at two different airlines)--some do a great job, some don't. Some are cocky, some aren't. However, a thing that is common to almost all of them that I have flown with is they are a little lacking in some of the basic situational airwareness and airmanship qualities that only come from experience. Some of them think once they have mastered flying the airplane and get the "routine" of the job down after 6 months or so on the job--at that point they now "know it all". Some don't even realize how much they DO NOT know(primarily the cocky ones).

I don't think that it is an issue of jealousy, like you say Hourbuilder. It is more of the issue that it is frustrating for the other crewmember to now have to make up for the 500hr pilots inadequacies. I am in no way slamming Gulfstreamers. I am merely being honest about a pilots experience level. Like AvroJockey, I still am learing and adding to my experience every time I go to work.

Hourbuilder, don't look down on your experience as a flight instructor. This time will serve you well in your aviation career and will make you a much better airline pilot when your time comes. Trust me, you will realize what I am talking about when you get there.

P.S. Your statement about 300hr european airline pilots is true. However, those candidates go through a very rigorous screening and testing cycle before being selected. Those are not positions offered to anybody who can write a check!

 

[Flyer1015]

Yes, but experience is no substitute for training, however, training can substitute for experience.

Haha. You're too funny. Now, I'm hoping they don't ban you.


What does a GIA guy do when there's an engine failure?

He turns around and says, " Capt. Scab [insert name of any SCABs at Gulfstream], can you please give me my engine back? I wasn't ready for that...

"But son, you gotta be ready."

"I paid 30K ! Do it, or my daddy will sue!"

 

[8HRRULE]

Haha. You're too funny. Now, I'm hoping they don't ban you.


What does a GIA guy do when there's an engine failure?

He turns around and says, " Capt. Scab [insert name of any SCABs at Gulfstream], can you please give me my engine back? I wasn't ready for that...

"But son, you gotta be ready."

"I paid 30K ! Do it, or my daddy will sue!"

You are sooooooooooo clever. How did you eeeeever come up with something like that?

 

[pianoman]

deleted

 

[saabservant]

Gulfstream, home of outcome based training....

where trying is more important than doing, self-esteem is more important than accomplishment, and progression depends on the size of Daddy's check!

Losers...

 

[8HRRULE]

Gulfstream, home of outcome based training....

where trying is more important than doing, self-esteem is more important than accomplishment, and progression depends on the size of Daddy's check!

Losers...

This is a complete falsehood. Many people try to complete PFT and do not. Most of these professionals have taken HUGE loans upon themselves in hopes of circumventing unnecessary work and bypassing the traditional way of becoming an airline pilot. They are truly changing the status quo and should be commended.

 

[Flyer1015]

This is a complete falsehood. Many people try to complete PFT and do not. Most of these professionals have taken HUGE loans upon themselves in hopes of circumventing unnecessary work and bypassing the traditional way of becoming an airline pilot. They are truly changing the status quo and should be commended.

.....

 

[Flyer1015]

But you're right, they are changing the status quo... If by status quo, you mean: Getting a PNCL class cancelled on GIA grads. because too many accidents/inciddents involving either GIA Capts/FOs recently had the insurance company screaming loudly.

 

[8HRRULE]

But you're right, they are changing the status quo... If by status quo, you mean: Getting a PNCL class cancelled on GIA grads. because too many accidents/inciddents involving either GIA Capts/FOs recently had the insurance company screaming loudly.

Im not sure exactly what your trying to say, however, i dont think that I like your rhetoric. And quite frankly, I dont think that there would be as many accidents and violations at PNCL if there were more GIA guys around. Consistent training is the key. Just ask the military.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Deleted

 

[SiuDude]

8,

STFU. You're an idiot.

In closing, read the following very carefully, pay someone to explain it to you, if you wish. "Your" implies posession... like, "Shut YOUR big, fat mouth." "You're", on the other hand, is the shortening of "you" and "are", to make the word. An example of this would be "You're an idiot." Comprende? I doubt it, but you owe me for TRAINING you how to speak and write proper English.

Shy

And I thought that I was the only smart one on this board.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Deleted

 

[8HRRULE]

8,

STFU. You're an idiot.

In closing, read the following very carefully, pay someone to explain it to you, if you wish. "Your" implies posession... like, "Shut YOUR big, fat mouth." "You're", on the other hand, is the shortening of "you" and "are", to make the word. An example of this would be "You're an idiot." Comprende? I doubt it, but you owe me for TRAINING you how to speak and write proper English.

Shy

When you get to smell the sweet smell of JetA in the morning then you can lecture me on grammer. Until then, YOU ARE not in a position lecture me.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Deleted

 

[8HRRULE]

8,

Get your foot out of your mouth. By your qualifications, I am in a position to lecture you.

By the way, one of your buddies showed up here the other day from GIA and he was LAUGHED OUT OF THE BUILDING! He successfully completed the PFT program there and didn't last longer than 15 minutes in the interview. Another one bites the dust.

Shy

Thats too bad. If there were more GIA guys around, there would probably be less violations and accidents. Sounds like a management problem.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Deleted

 

[8HRRULE]

Okay, you're an idiot.

Fortunately, I don't have any more time to whittle away making fun of you... it was too easy, anyhow.

Next up, 8HRRULE will, amazingly, make a jerk of himself again...

Good night,

Shy

Better get some sleep, Mickey D's opens at 5 and its your turn to make the biscuits. And by the way, my spelling may be flawed at times, but when it comes to this industry, my words are the gospel.

 

[dondk]

8HRRULE,

I don't know if your one of US (PNCL), if you are.. take a step back..
If not, then you really are not in the right to speak about our program.

Your comment about GIA peep's is wrong, PFT in a 1900 and flying a CRJ (or any jet for that matter) is two different things.

In a 1900 you rarely get into the flight levels, in the jet you are rarely anywhere BUT the flight levels.
The 1900 is 1/3 the weight of the CRJ, the 1900 top speed is 248, the CRJ climbs out above that.
Don't get me wrong, the 1900 is a fun and forgiving aircraft but it is not a CRJ.

Your PFT program prepares you for exactly that, the 1900.. The GIA program does not prepare you for a jet. The GIA program does not prepare you for winter operations. The GIA program does not prepare you for the 3000 hours you need to upgrade, only time and experience does that.

At PNCL we have had many people bust upgrade because of lack of experience and that includes some of those GIA peep's.

Not too long ago I had a GIA guy tell me that since he had 500 hrs in type (800 TT) he should be allowed to upgrade. PFT and 500 hours of experience does not mean you have command ability.

You mention military training.. ask a military guy how long his training is... It is a lot more that 20 sims and 6 weeks of class.

Heck many regionals in the SAME equipment offer much less, so you are now saying that because you are GIA and PFT your better than the rest of the industry.. Bold words in my opinion ...

GIA PFT'ers bust PNCL training just like regular folks and even a few military guys. All I am saying is the GIA PFT peep is NO better than anyone else. The only difference is that a GIA PFT peep paid $$$ in place of experience. Something this industry allows and while it is allowable it will never leave. Enjoy your ride in the right seat, in time you will move into the left seat and understand where some of us (with considerable more experiece) are coming from. The first FO that tries to make you a statistic will bring a whole new meaning to experience.