pinnacle class cancelled

[8HRRULE]

How curious, all this people that just joined the board this month happen to be pro PFT, DCA, and GIA TOOLS!!

Like I said, were takin over. You, sir, are behind the power curve.

 

[Flechas]

Like I said, were takin over. You, sir, are behind the power curve.

Yeah, I'd love to see you in the left seat, but just remember , like CatYaaak said "When in danger, when in doubt. Run in circles, scream and shout" you may have to use that a few times, make it part of your flows....

 

[8HRRULE]

Yeah, I'd love to see you in the left seat, but just remember , like CatYaaak said "When in danger, when in doubt. Run in circles, scream and shout" you may have to use that a few times, make it part of your flows....

Dont you worry. You will be my SIC soon!

 

[Flechas]

Oh but it is TRAINING, what made you change your name?

 

[8HRRULE]

Oh but it is TRAINING, what made you change your name?

BANNED 4 LIFE!

Probably because of you toolbag..............................RAT
Some people just can't handle the truth.

 

[Flechas]

BANNED 4 LIFE!

Probably because of you toolbag..............................RAT
Some people just can't handle the truth.

Hahahahah awesome, working your way there again?

 

[8HRRULE]

Hahahahah awesome, working your way there again?

Almost there, can you help me out?

 

[Flechas]

Almost there, can you help me out?

Just did!!!

 

[8HRRULE]

I didn't mind not being paid while I was in training because I knew that I was going to finally get to fly a JET! Pinnacle pilots have a new contract coming that will make us the best paid CRJ-440 pilots in the WORLD!

 

[8HRRULE]

Just did!!!

Thanks Fletch. May you always be a snitch, a moron, and the BIGGEST SUCKER ON THIS BOARD!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Statistically, any airline that grows rapidly, like 9E, will have growing pains. Who is at fault? I would tend to lean toward management and include this, the GIAers with 400 hours are not the PIC. Do they make mistakes? You bet they do. An experienced examiner once told me, be extremely careful of your criticizim because one day you will be criticized for your mistakes too.

True man, you make some very valid points. But, as I said earlier, when the $hit hits the fan, I want someone there that will be able to help me command the situation. There aren't many people out there that can handle an RJ single pilot IFR with a bunch of things going wrong. That's why there are two people up front. A 400 hour guy doesn't have the experience or know-how to handle something like that, or to be much help in that kind of situation, leaving the PIC holding the bag. That's why you're a CREW. When I'm flying my jet around (granted, it's just a slowtation, easily handled single pilot), I want a guy in the right seat that is properly qualified, properly experienced, that can help me when I need it. I just fly a little slowtation now, but I've flown fast, sweptwing airplanes, and that's why they NEED 2 pilots. 2 properly qualified pilots. When something goes wrong, and you have a PIC in the left seat that's trying to handle an emergency, and a panicking 400 hour GIA Koolaid drinker in the right seat also, it might darn well just be too much. That's a situation that can be easily avoided by putting people in the right seat that actually have some experience. And you're totally right, management is to blame for that.

The point you were trying to make was that a military pilot is better. I disagree. A military pilot may have certain skills that may differ from a civilians skills because of the extreme differences in aircraft usage, however, with todays training environments and the aircraft available for civilian instruction the differences are quite small. What generally lacks in a 400 hour pilot is situational awareness. Constant situational awareness.

Well, pal, on this I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree. You're right, though, military flying and civilian flying are two totally different things. Believe me, I've flown with plenty of military guys that have no idea how to fly an airplane smooth. , But.....I've NEVER flown with a bad stick from the military. I just have to think that starting out basically in a high performance prop, then moving to a T-38, then to a military Beechjet (whatever they call it), beats the hell out of learning in a fixed gear 172, then a Semenhole then a 1900. It actually scares the hell out of me that these GIAers are actually flying PEOPLE around in these 1900's as 200 hour commercial pilots. Thank God it's in FL and there's no weather. Not to mention the fact that the military training standards are so much higher, and their admittance standards are VASTLY higher. At GIA, all you need is money, and you're in. I got turned down for the military b/c I couldn't pass a color vision test. In my opinion, they missed out on a great pilot in me, but that's OK, I still have more respect for those guys than anything. And I definitely am happy where I am. I'm still burning jet fuel, I'm just not moving quite as fast.

8HRRULE, take note. This is how you DEBATE. Two folks having a nice conversation, civilly disagreeing. All you can seem to do is jump around and go "Ummmmm.....duuuh!!! You worked for Freedom!!! We're taking over!! Duuuuhhh." It's kind of funny, though.

 

[Flechas]

It is very funny, I'm having a blast!!

 

[8HRRULE]

8HRRULE, take note. This is how you DEBATE. Two folks having a nice conversation, civilly disagreeing. All you can seem to do is jump around and go "Ummmmm.....duuuh!!! You worked for Freedom!!! We're taking over!! Duuuuhhh." It's kind of funny, though.

Dont worry, according to flechas, my days are numbered. I'd be PO'd too if I was him.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Ohhhhh.......he was 'training'!! That explains it. Now I can just ignore him.

 

[PCL_128]

Just did!!!

Same here. Let's see how quickly we can get this idiot banned!

 

[Flybet3]

Ok

Its not koolaid. And furthermore, superior training CAN substitute for experience. At 1500hrs, a PFT is undoubtably ready to be a captain. The FAA even thinks so. As for the respect factor, repeat that when there is a PFT grad that is your captain.

This must be the same dumbass that logs on under the name of "TRAINING" same stupidass mentality,a 400 hour piston/turbo-slow-prop sic guy cannot compete with a 400 jet trained military pilot

 

[Flyer1015]

TRAINING !!!!! Man, you're back! This board wasn't the same without you!

To the moderator who banned Training, I salute you sir!

And to the any moderator who bans "8HRRULE" (aka training), the beer is on me !

 

[Flechas]

I'll buy the second round!!!

 

[Lear70]

People say "Wait for the NTSB report". But now it's been asserted that NTSB reports are;

1) ..full of holes due to incompetence, or

2)... the NTSB isn't a dispassionate entity. In fact, the reports it generates are written by people all working in sych to commit federal crimes in the name of $$$. (btw, an investigator purposely omitting relevant evidence so as to change the outcome of an official report is also a federal crime, tantamount to falsification) A Grand Consipiracy. They "can't be trusted to tell the whole truth", you wrote.

So therefore you've basically said;

3)...The reports are bogus anyway! (unless of course the pilots aren't found to be responsible, but merely victims).

NOW you're catching on... good for you!

That's tongue-in-cheek by the way... I don't discount the entire report; on the contrary, I take the FACTS and make up my own mind of what happened and why. Sometimes I agree with the NTSB, other times I believe more blame lies in other areas than what they attributed it to. When I have more time I'll dust off a few of the more obvious cases (besides the AA rudder accident) and point out their flaws and how they tend to protect the airlines and the manufacturers because God knows what would happen if the report stressed a shortfall that might affect thousands of aircraft across the country.

You're right about one thing: I don't trust the NTSB. Don't trust the FAA either. Come to think of it, there's not many government organizations I do trust and if you do, you might want to get a cat scan.

Is it because the info they have released so far during their investigation isn't palatable that the bogus-report drum is already beating? The whole POINT of an investigation is to shed light on failings and mistakes in order not to repeat them. That's never tasty. Plenty of reports also praise crews who acted appropriately whether they avoided a disaster or mitigated it. Are those bogus too?

Oh I agree completely about 3701, but I'm not going to sling mud over their grave either. I'm going to take the information that comes out, analyze it myself, and try to learn and apply the knowledge to make my aircraft safer without dispariaging the crew's memory. In my opinion, that's what a professional aviator does.

 

[CatYaaak]

Oh I agree completely about 3701, but I'm not going to sling mud over their grave either. I'm going to take the information that comes out, analyze it myself, and try to learn and apply the knowledge to make my aircraft safer without dispariaging the crew's memory. In my opinion, that's what a professional aviator does.

I haven't seen anyone slinging mud on anyone's grave, or disparaging a memory. If it seemed somehow that I've been doing that with the CRJ crew, then I apologize to everyone. But you can't apply something you don't learn, and you can't learn it if emotion is muddying the waters to the point you can't evaluate my, yours, and yes even the mistakes of people we knew that aren't here any longer with dispassion. Immaturity mistakes an evaluation for an accusation or personal attack. IMO, professional aviators should be mature enough to know the difference.

Like it or not, our certificates and positions they pay us for hold us to a higher standard than joe blow tooling around with a PPL. One of those higher standards we're held to is the ability to not only self-critique, but to evaluate others..meaning our peers even when it sucks. Every Captain at every airline is an "automatic" instructor in this regard, and I'd be highly suprised if imparting knowledge to F/Os doesn't appear somewhere on your list of job duties. There's only one reason we are expected, and required to do it (that is, to promote the good stuff and squelch the bad stuff); the people in back who trust us enough to believe we're not sitting up front just making $hit up. If someone is while doing this job, we shouldn't be defending those actions. If someone insists on doing it, tell them rent a Pitts and get your ya yas out. But in the meantime, fly it how they pay us to fly it.

Those are old lessons, and it ain't about us, or our feelings.

 

[Flyer1015]

I'll buy the second round!!!

Great !

Give it time though, this guy is gonna get himself canned just like last time. I did notice that his 'training' name appeared red-colored in the forums. I didn't know what that was about, but it's obvious now.

 

[Rook]

True man, you make some very valid points. But, as I said earlier, when the $hit hits the fan, I want someone there that will be able to help me command the situation. There aren't many people out there that can handle an RJ single pilot IFR with a bunch of things going wrong. That's why there are two people up front. A 400 hour guy doesn't have the experience or know-how to handle something like that, or to be much help in that kind of situation, leaving the PIC holding the bag. That's why you're a CREW. When I'm flying my jet around (granted, it's just a slowtation, easily handled single pilot), I want a guy in the right seat that is properly qualified, properly experienced, that can help me when I need it. I just fly a little slowtation now, but I've flown fast, sweptwing airplanes, and that's why they NEED 2 pilots. 2 properly qualified pilots. When something goes wrong, and you have a PIC in the left seat that's trying to handle an emergency, and a panicking 400 hour GIA Koolaid drinker in the right seat also, it might darn well just be too much. That's a situation that can be easily avoided by putting people in the right seat that actually have some experience. And you're totally right, management is to blame for that.


The F/O on that flight was doing his job til the end. He had the airport in sight and they almost made it.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[mayoplane]

It's messed up how you guys get so caught up on bashing Pinnacle pilots. It's amazing how you don't think anything wrong with generalizing the pilot group just because few dumb people. Someone thought that the deicing fluid was for inflight icing.....big deal. Now all the Pinnacle guys are idiots because of this one guy? Airspeed above 250 below 10,000? That doesn't happen anywhere else? How about those guys who tell ground "negative de-ice" in moderate snow weather? What about the guys who fly in south that never get to see snow? Should we start insulting them too?

Was that the ATL based DL connection who landed on a taxi way in ATL at night? Same company took off in a CRJ with the gear pin still in the nose? Same people fried the engine in a Brazilia? Express Jet ERJ landing with high descent rate, hard-landed with substantial damage? BE1900 in Midwest MELed items which shouldn't have been, and totally forgot to put the gear down in ORD? Major airliner with FMS landing in a wrong airport? Are all the pilots from those companies idiots? .....or sh#t just happens?

It's one thing to say your opinion about low-time pilots getting hired to fly CRJ, but you can't just generalize the whole pilot group because of a few idiots. Idiots are out there wherever you go. Pinnacle require their pilots to have more than 3000 hours to become a PIC. Other regionals let people sit in the left seat of their jets as long as they have the ATP certificate.(1500 hours) Who's really safer? ....or IT ALL DEPENDS.....? You just can't generalize everybody.

 

[Rook]

Good post.

Rook

 

[8HRRULE]

Great !

Give it time though, this guy is gonna get himself canned just like last time. I did notice that his 'training' name appeared red-colored in the forums. I didn't know what that was about, but it's obvious now.

You may not want to hear what I have to say, but I speak the gospel when it comes to aviation.

 

[8HRRULE]

I'll buy the second round!!!

Third is on me.

 

[Flechas]

Hahahahaha, it's because posts like these that I asked the mods not to bann you!!!

 

[Flechas]

Third is on me.

You are not drinking with us DORK!!!

 

[Flyer1015]

It'll be a cold day in Hades before we drink with you, training.

 

[8HRRULE]

I care Mr. Gullible. I'm so sorry that you feel that way!