pinnacle class cancelled

[Carl_Spackler]

That does not turn you into an instructor to inform your SIC on rudimentary skills and experience-based knowledge.

At Pinnacle one of the CA's jobs is to train/mentor FO's. It was in the book at my last airline and I'm guessing that it's that way at most airlines. Everyone is new to 121, jets, etc at one point in their career.

 

[DoinTime]

Helena, Montana incident
Milwaukee accident

On top of countless other instances my 9E crashpad roomate has shared with me.

Perhaps you can elaborate on the HLN incident, as you call it. I'm as involved as anyone here but I don't know what your talking about. I know of a popular rumor that involved HLN but there were no facts behind it.

Don't know how you propose to keep an aircraft that is determined to depart the runway unscathed. Not intending to speculate on cause but this aircraft obviously had a mechanical discrepancy that wasn't going to fix itself airborne. Sooner or later they had to land and sooner or later they were going to run off the runway. How does this detract from the pilot group? After a 100 kt. off road excursion in a CRJ the crew was still able to taxi to the gate with nobody getting hurt. These guys are my heroes!

What is your roommates position within management or the Association that he is privileged to so much information? I would guess that the majority of what he is telling you is crew room crap. You were just gullible enough to buy it.

Why is it that FedEx pilots can destroy an airframe ever couple years or so and avoid the kind of bashing that PCL pilots have had to endure the past few weeks on this board?

Actually, I take great pride in the fact that no XJ pilot has never crashed an airplane, so all can ride on us with confidence!

A very admirable accomplishment. One that very few can revel in. You should be proud.

 

[Rook]

Actually, I take great pride in the fact that no XJ pilot has never crashed an airplane, so all can ride on us with confidence!

Well I guess I better not have any of my family fly on American, Delta, United, USAir and Northwest.

There are many good pilots at 9E, including personal friends of mine, but overall your pilot group seems particularly fallible. I would never put my family on a 9E flight, unless I personally knew the person at the stick.

Anyone know where I can get the seniority lists of the airlines mentioned above? I gotta look out for my family and friends.

Rook

Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[PCL_128]

Why is it that FedEx pilots can destroy an airframe ever couple years or so and avoid the kind of bashing that PCL pilots have had to endure the past few weeks on this board?

Excellent point.

 

[Rook]

Why is it that FedEx pilots can destroy an airframe ever couple years or so and avoid the kind of bashing that PCL pilots have had to endure the past few weeks on this board?



Because they're highly trained professionals and us regional po' folk are bush leaguers.

Rook
Looks like a high overcast.
Better ask for Type IV.

 

[Lear70]

Perhaps you can elaborate on the HLN incident, as you call it. I'm as involved as anyone here but I don't know what your talking about. I know of a popular rumor that involved HLN but there were no facts behind it.

They're covering it during recurrent PC/PT's; they actually set up the sim to fly a HLN arrival to approach transition scenario to not only remind people how to intercept an arc green needles (and to watch out for the big hard pointy things coming up from the planet Earth) but also how to program the FMS to pick up the arc without going to the VOR first (it's not that hard but evidently a LOT of people can't program the box properly for it).

Read the NTSB report on Hibbing, and then read the pilots' group "finding" of the same event as voiced through the Union. The latter is basically a circling-of-wagons whitewash designed to protect a small-group, senior-member peer that if believed, negates the positive effects of enhancing safety, which NTSB investigations are designed to do in an objective manner. I won't be suprised if a similar kind of wild variance exists regarding the latest one. Given the lack of growing-up I had assumed had taken place over there but now it's clear has not, no doubt many will only believe exactly what they want to believe, just like then.

Hibbings? I wasn't here (and neither was 95% of the rest of the pilot group currently on property) but you can't find jack squat about it besides the NTSB report.

Speaking of NTSB reports; anyone who doesn't believe that the NTSB reports are SERIOUSLY influenced by big money politics needs to put down the crack pipe. Just look at the Airbus tail failure in New York - the NTSB barely acknowledged that AA had TRAINED their pilots to react like that to any serious yaw in flight - I know, I've been through that program at the AA Training Center, and that's just one example of incomplete NTSB reports. There's countless examples where the NTSB will blame a single employee or a crew instead of sharing the blame with the company's training program and standard operating procedures or the FSDO overseeing them because it would probably shut that company down... haven't seen much of that lately, have you? The truth is ALWAYS somewhere in the middle.

I'll bet you a frosty one that the NTSB will refuse to acknowledge that the training here at PCL had ANYTHING to do with the 3701 accident when, in fact, a self-audit here at PCL has revealed that over 90% of the pilot group and over 70% of the Captains can't easily find the altitude climb/cruise capability chart or driftdown chart, much less use them properly; most have never seen them during training (the charts aren't covered except for the required takeoff/climb/cruise from MEM to TUP scenario given on the initial checkride). The fact that pilots at this airline haven't taken it on themselves to learn EVERYTHING in the FCOM's is one thing that really irritates me and the pilots here DO need to fix within our own ranks...

Putting the blame SOLELY on pilots is easy - there's no "big money" to defend them and ensure blame gets assigned fairly. I'm not saying the pilots of any of these aircraft did everything perfectly, I'm simply stating that the company and the MEM FSDO bear a LARGE portion of the responsibility for what happened and that the NTSB cannot be trusted to tell the WHOLE truth.

After a 100 kt. off road excursion in a CRJ the crew was still able to taxi to the gate with nobody getting hurt. These guys are my heroes!

I'd suggest waiting for the prelim NTSB report to come out before you start patting backs - a lot more information will be coming to light. I certainly wouldn't have taxiied an airplane after that kind of "excursion" without a maintenance inspection and gear pins installed (the pax can wait or be deplaned and walked or bussed to the terminal), and that's just one example of issues that will come up.

PCL isn't the worst, it's just the most recent to have problems; this will all happen again with a different name under the thread title.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

If PIC's of 121 carriers insisted on having only fully experienced FO's in their right seats how would military pilots ever get into airline flying?

I still stand behind what I said. However, you cannot compare military flight training with civilian training. Is a 400 hour military trained pilot comparable their equally "houred" civilian counterpart?? Not at all. I'll put my money on a military pilot any day of the week. I know a lot of them, and they are all d@mn fine sticks. So that's like comparing apples vs. oranges. And for the most part, airlines see it that way.

 

[8HRRULE]

I still stand behind what I said. However, you cannot compare military flight training with civilian training. Is a 400 hour military trained pilot comparable their equally "houred" civilian counterpart?? Not at all. I'll put my money on a military pilot any day of the week. I know a lot of them, and they are all d@mn fine sticks. So that's like comparing apples vs. oranges. And for the most part, airlines see it that way.

Im sorry sir, but i respectfully disagree. If a 400hr civillian went through a quality PFT program then he is comparable if not better than a 400hr military any day of the week.

 

[100LL... Again!]

Anyone who tries to compare the 12-month certificate-mill 400 hr pilot to the product that comes out of the military is simply delusional.

Any attempts to educate said person are pointless.

The intensity, quality and COST of the miltary training is totally unlike anything like oh, say, GIA.

 

[Workin'Stiff]

My point exactly.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I don't care where your training is......a 400 hr pilot is a 400 hr pilot.

Now, with that being said, the quality of training is night and day. A 400 hour military pilot is head and shoulders above a civilian 400 hour pilot for many reasons.....quality of training, standards of training, equipment flown, to name a few. Now, you compare all of that to a buy-a-job program, it's not even close. A 400 hour military pilot is VASTLY superior.

I'd say 400 hours of military time is equal to probably at least 1,000 to 1,500 hours of civilian time. Now, of course, military guys aren't ready to be 121 captains right out of the box, but nobody is. That's why there is seniority, insurance requirements of time in type, and just the general learning of the ropes and the way things are done. But, coupled with their high quality military training and time, (and most guys have 1,500 to 2,000 hours anyway when they get out) they're certainly better equipped than a buy-a-jobber that threw down $100K of Daddy's money to pull gear in a 1900 for 200 hours. But then again, who isn't? I'd take a night freight pilot over any of these little GIA pricks anyday. #1, they're better equipped to handle this type of flying. #2, it's simply the respect factor, of guys that paid their dues, worked their way up, and did it right.

However, at 400 hours, it doesn't matter. No amount of training can equal experience. That is what is needed to become an effective jet captain. You can be the best stick in the world, but until you can think quickly, on your feet, make decisions, command and coordinate a crew effectively, you're not ready. Even as a copilot (to be a good one) you need these skills. Anybody can sit over there and pull gear, but when the (shtuff) hits the fan, I want someone over there that can help me out when my workload is high, and work with me to help command the situation. A 400 hour guy (of course, there are exceptions), isn't ready for that. Period. He hasn't seen anything, and has no experience.

The buy-a-jobbers are fed all kinds of koolaid bulls--t from training departments and sales people, and I halfway don't blame them....they just don't know any better. They see it as a chance to get into a jet, and mortgage the house, sell a kidney, and all that for some BS scab operation sitting in a 1900. But one of these days, when they get stuck with a 300 hour copilot, they'll know what we were all bitching about on flightinfo that one time.

 

[TurboAWD]

Oh my god...did I read that right? Someone actually thinks a 400hr wonder from GIA or the like can be compared to a 400hr mil pilot?

Do you have any idea what mil training is like? Do know how long it takes to get 400hrs in a mil training pipeline? Not to mention you can't just BUY your way through, they get to pic from quite a stack of good candidates.

I'm not trashing GIA or UND or anything else, but you are on crack if you think they are comparable.

 

[8HRRULE]

I don't care where your training is......a 400 hr pilot is a 400 hr pilot.

Now, with that being said, the quality of training is night and day. A 400 hour military pilot is head and shoulders above a civilian 400 hour pilot for many reasons.....quality of training, standards of training, equipment flown, to name a few. Now, you compare all of that to a buy-a-job program, it's not even close. A 400 hour military pilot is VASTLY superior.

I'd say 400 hours of military time is equal to probably at least 1,000 to 1,500 hours of civilian time. Now, of course, military guys aren't ready to be 121 captains right out of the box, but nobody is. That's why there is seniority, insurance requirements of time in type, and just the general learning of the ropes and the way things are done. But, coupled with their high quality military training and time, (and most guys have 1,500 to 2,000 hours anyway when they get out) they're certainly better equipped than a buy-a-jobber that threw down $100K of Daddy's money to pull gear in a 1900 for 200 hours. But then again, who isn't? I'd take a night freight pilot over any of these little GIA pricks anyday. #1, they're better equipped to handle this type of flying. #2, it's simply the respect factor, of guys that paid their dues, worked their way up, and did it right.

However, at 400 hours, it doesn't matter. No amount of training can equal experience. That is what is needed to become an effective jet captain. You can be the best stick in the world, but until you can think quickly, on your feet, make decisions, command and coordinate a crew effectively, you're not ready. Even as a copilot (to be a good one) you need these skills. Anybody can sit over there and pull gear, but when the (shtuff) hits the fan, I want someone over there that can help me out when my workload is high, and work with me to help command the situation. A 400 hour guy (of course, there are exceptions), isn't ready for that. Period. He hasn't seen anything, and has no experience.

The buy-a-jobbers are fed all kinds of koolaid bulls--t from training departments and sales people, and I halfway don't blame them....they just don't know any better. They see it as a chance to get into a jet, and mortgage the house, sell a kidney, and all that for some BS scab operation sitting in a 1900. But one of these days, when they get stuck with a 300 hour copilot, they'll know what we were all bitching about on flightinfo that one time.

Its not koolaid. And furthermore, superior training CAN substitute for experience. At 1500hrs, a PFT is undoubtably ready to be a captain. The FAA even thinks so. As for the respect factor, repeat that when there is a PFT grad that is your captain.

 

[8HRRULE]

Oh my god...did I read that right? Someone actually thinks a 400hr wonder from GIA or the like can be compared to a 400hr mil pilot?

Do you have any idea what mil training is like? Do know how long it takes to get 400hrs in a mil training pipeline? Not to mention you can't just BUY your way through, they get to pic from quite a stack of good candidates.

I'm not trashing GIA or UND or anything else, but you are on crack if you think they are comparable.

You have no idea what these guys and gals go through. If you did, you would NEVER say that.

 

[100LL... Again!]

GIA washes 'em out when they run outta money.


The military washes 'em out when they run out of skills.

8hrrule is just a troll.

 

[8HRRULE]

GIA washes 'em out when they run outta money.


The military washes 'em out when they run out of skills.

8hrrule is just a troll.

this is not flame, sir

 

[aimfar]

I don't care where your training is......a 400 hr pilot is a 400 hr pilot.

Now, with that being said, the quality of training is night and day. A 400 hour military pilot is head and shoulders above a civilian 400 hour pilot for many reasons.....quality of training, standards of training, equipment flown, to name a few. Now, you compare all of that to a buy-a-job program, it's not even close. A 400 hour military pilot is VASTLY superior.

I'd say 400 hours of military time is equal to probably at least 1,000 to 1,500 hours of civilian time. Now, of course, military guys aren't ready to be 121 captains right out of the box, but nobody is. That's why there is seniority, insurance requirements of time in type, and just the general learning of the ropes and the way things are done. But, coupled with their high quality military training and time, (and most guys have 1,500 to 2,000 hours anyway when they get out) they're certainly better equipped than a buy-a-jobber that threw down $100K of Daddy's money to pull gear in a 1900 for 200 hours. But then again, who isn't? I'd take a night freight pilot over any of these little GIA pricks anyday. #1, they're better equipped to handle this type of flying. #2, it's simply the respect factor, of guys that paid their dues, worked their way up, and did it right.

However, at 400 hours, it doesn't matter. No amount of training can equal experience. That is what is needed to become an effective jet captain. You can be the best stick in the world, but until you can think quickly, on your feet, make decisions, command and coordinate a crew effectively, you're not ready. Even as a copilot (to be a good one) you need these skills. Anybody can sit over there and pull gear, but when the (shtuff) hits the fan, I want someone over there that can help me out when my workload is high, and work with me to help command the situation. A 400 hour guy (of course, there are exceptions), isn't ready for that. Period. He hasn't seen anything, and has no experience.

The buy-a-jobbers are fed all kinds of koolaid bulls--t from training departments and sales people, and I halfway don't blame them....they just don't know any better. They see it as a chance to get into a jet, and mortgage the house, sell a kidney, and all that for some BS scab operation sitting in a 1900. But one of these days, when they get stuck with a 300 hour copilot, they'll know what we were all bitching about on flightinfo that one time.

This is all just your personal opinion. When you have statistics put it on the screen.

 

[8HRRULE]

Exactly

 

[Flechas]

How curious, all this people that just joined the board this month happen to be pro PFT, DCA, and GIA TOOLS!!

 

[Simon Says]

This thread covers the gammit. PFT, Freedom, Scabs, and my airline is better than your airline.

Sweet!

 

[Sun Devil 2000]

WARNING ... I"M GETTING ON MY SOAP BOX!!!

Look y'all everyone makes mistakes unfortunatley some are fatal ones that kill loved ones. There is no reason to drag their names/memories through the mud. It is also PURE IGNORANCE to call a group of pilot unsafe because of some stories that you have heard second or third hand. I'm not saying that what has happened in the past at 9E was safe or the individuals used good judgement. Why cant we be positive and professional and LEARN from what happened so it WON'T happen again?

I know that I am not the most experienced pilot in the world. I also know that as long as I am in this industry I will continue to improve my skills as a pilot and decision maker. Not only through my own experience but also by listening to others who have more experience that I have. Its really easy to sit back after the fact and call someone a bad pilot. Its easy to say I never would have done that (I sure know that I have in the past). I takes a bigger, more intelligent person to say WOW thats scary I should do some research and find out what happened so I wont REPEAT this mistake.

I find it very interesting to see a lot of XJ pilots bashing their 9E brothers and sisters. If you remember last winter our MEC was all behind you when you prepared to strike! I would only hope that YOU will be there in the next couple of years when we may have to strike.

If you dont wanna fly as a passenger on my airplane its cool by me. I wouldn't want you on my plane anyway!

 

[Flechas]

This thread covers the gammit. PFT, Freedom, Scabs, and my airline is better than your airline.

Sweet!

This is the ALL IN ONE deal that we've been asking for all this time, finally our union dues paying off!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Its not koolaid. And furthermore, superior training CAN substitute for experience. At 1500hrs, a PFT is undoubtably ready to be a captain.

Ohmigosh, I need to mark my calender. This is the day I've officially heard the DUMBEST THING EVER. Truly spoken by someone drunk on Koolaid.

I feel for you man. You're just completely naive. I can't get mad at you, I just feel sorry for you.

This is all just your personal opinion. When you have statistics put it on the screen.

However, you do have a point. This is just my personal opinion. I don't have any statistics to back it up. But I'd be willing to be anything that most of the problems at 9E were with GIAers. I know for a fact that the Mesa 1900 that went down in CLT had buy-a-jobbers up front.

Speaking of which, I'd like to see whatever statistics you can produce.

Guys, just look at the vast majority of opinions on this thread. Do I have any statistics about it, no. I'll bet if I did some research I could find some, but I'm a pilot, and dammit, I'm lazy. But I bet there's no statistical data that says people that practice playing guitar 5 hours a day are better guitar players than someone that practices 5 hours a week. But you know......F-ING DUUUH!! Use some common sense. 400 hours vs. 2000 hours.....F-ING DUUUUUH!!!

 

[CatYaaak]

Hibbings? I wasn't here (and neither was 95% of the rest of the pilot group currently on property) but you can't find jack squat about it besides the NTSB report.

There's countless examples where the NTSB will blame a single employee or a crew instead of sharing the blame with the company's training program and standard operating procedures or the FSDO overseeing them because it would probably shut that company down... haven't seen much of that lately, have you? The truth is ALWAYS somewhere in the middle.

I'll bet you a frosty one that the NTSB will refuse to acknowledge that the training here at PCL had ANYTHING to do with the 3701 accident when, in fact, a self-audit here at PCL has revealed that over 90% of the pilot group and over 70% of the Captains can't easily find the altitude climb/cruise capability chart or driftdown chart, much less use them properly; most have never seen them during training (the charts aren't covered except for the required takeoff/climb/cruise from MEM to TUP scenario given on the initial checkride). The fact that pilots at this airline haven't taken it on themselves to learn EVERYTHING in the FCOM's is one thing that really irritates me and the pilots here DO need to fix within our own ranks...

Putting the blame SOLELY on pilots is easy - there's no "big money" to defend them and ensure blame gets assigned fairly. I'm not saying the pilots of any of these aircraft did everything perfectly, I'm simply stating that the company and the MEM FSDO bear a LARGE portion of the responsibility for what happened and that the NTSB cannot be trusted to tell the WHOLE truth.

QUOTE]

Lear 70.....I'll take that bet for the frosty one (in fact make it a case worth) that the NTSB will cite improper training as a contributing factor...there won't be any getting around that one. But "Countless examples of the NTSB blaming a single pilot or crew" and nobody else? A straw man argument, because actually what you aver is very, very rare. Please point me to them, I'll look them up. You must not read very many NTSB reports of air carrier accidents, or stop reading and dismiss the whole thing when it comes to part of pilots being held at least partly responsible. In the Hibbing report, they cited as contributing factors not only the companies practices but also breakdown of FAA/POI oversight. They investigated what was going on at the FSDO, the training department, and DOs office, just as much as what happened in the cockpit, and found it lacking.

For Doin Time.....I'll take any NTSB report as more objective than something produced by a Union whether you want to call it a "finding" or merely an "opinion", exponentially so when it involves an accident involving one of it's own Union officers (in this case the strike organizer, I believe). After all, any Union's prime directive is to protect it's dues-paying membership and it's reputation...that's why they exist in the first place, therefore objectivity and dispassion can't even be proven let alone assumed. They have a spoken agenda, so there isn't even any need to try and conjure up a Grand Conspiracy theory like what's been done with the NTSB. There's more of a leg to stand on if you said the FAA looked the other way at times for certain companies to "promote commerce" at the expense of safety.

And in the Union's "opinion" of the Hibbing accident, although it spared the Captain from bearing any responsiblity...that was it's whole point... along with everything else from the equipment and Company to flying in IMC conditions, it did indeed blame part of the crew....the F/O. But of course, the F/O was an on-probation new-hire only with with the company for a couple months, and therefore wasn't a dues-paying member yet (nice to know that at least in that shop, the seniors didn't believe that little thing...hmmm, what is it?...oh yeah.... about the PIC being the "final authority to the safety of the flight", even when he's the PF).

Despite you're statement otherwise, there was nothing wrong with the A/Cs suitablity for the environment since the tailplane icing AD had been complied with, and I suppose the "little factors" the NTSB did find such as this particular Captain hitting an F/O in the cockpit and a well-documented bad-attitude regarding CRM that became detrimental to performance in prior instances..well I guess you have to grasp for something, even if it's vagueness, if you're the Union and are out to defend his actions and judgement.

But hey, if you think it's something more than the MOST basic of fundamentals for a professional pilot to know you shouldn't fly a non-precision approach through the FAF and MDA at 2,500+ FPM, or try to climb to altitudes above what your own charts tell you, then what can I say? Call me an idiot, but personally, I don't think those are particularily "insididious" or complicated (to say they are makes light of most accidents, which indeed are).

People say "Wait for the NTSB report". But now it's been asserted that NTSB reports are;

1) ..full of holes due to incompetence, or

2)... the NTSB isn't a dispassionate entity. In fact, the reports it generates are written by people all working in sych to commit federal crimes in the name of $$$. (btw, an investigator purposely omitting relevant evidence so as to change the outcome of an official report is also a federal crime, tantamount to falsification) A Grand Consipiracy. They "can't be trusted to tell the whole truth", you wrote.

So therefore you've basically said;

3)...The reports are bogus anyway! (unless of course the pilots aren't found to be responsible, but merely victims).

Is it because the info they have released so far during their investigation isn't palatable that the bogus-report drum is already beating? The whole POINT of an investigation is to shed light on failings and mistakes in order not to repeat them. That's never tasty. Plenty of reports also praise crews who acted appropriately whether they avoided a disaster or mitigated it. Are those bogus too?

 

[8HRRULE]

Ohmigosh, I need to mark my calender. This is the day I've officially heard the DUMBEST THING EVER. Truly spoken by someone drunk on Koolaid.

I feel for you man. You're just completely naive. I can't get mad at you, I just feel sorry for you.

I'm drunk on koolaid? Your the schmuk that used to work at FREEDOM!!!!!!

Where did you get all that CRJ-700/900 Time? We all feel sorry for you!

 

[Flechas]

We all feel sorry for you!

We all? never include "we" in anything you say, unless of course is "WE are a bunch of tools from GIA"

 

[8HRRULE]

We all? never include "we" in anything you say, unless of course is "WE are a bunch of tools from GIA"

How about "YOU" are a tool that took the long way around and now has his regrets.

 

[Flechas]

Regrets? I had an awesome time flight instructing, worked a s a mechanic for a year ina flight school, I've learned more things than you will learn in your life. I worked with a great bunch of people that know the meaning of working hard and doing a good job. I have had a LIFE, and if I were to die today I'd go happy, if you were to die today you'd go as a scum, as a bottom feeder blood sucking leech.

 

[aimfar]

However, you do have a point. This is just my personal opinion. I don't have any statistics to back it up. But I'd be willing to bet anything that most of the problems at 9E were with GIAers

Statistically, any airline that grows rapidly, like 9E, will have growing pains. Who is at fault? I would tend to lean toward management and include this, the GIAers with 400 hours are not the PIC. Do they make mistakes? You bet they do. An experienced examiner once told me, be extremely careful of your criticizim because one day you will be criticized for your mistakes too.

The point you were trying to make was that a military pilot is better. I disagree. A military pilot may have certain skills that may differ from a civilians skills because of the extreme differences in aircraft usage, however, with todays training environments and the aircraft available for civilian instruction the differences are quite small. What generally lacks in a 400 hour pilot is situational awareness. Constant situational awareness.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I'm drunk on koolaid? Your the schmuk that used to work at FREEDOM!!!!!!

Dude, did they not teach you to read a GIA? Guess not. Here is something I quoted on post #132, yesterday at 19:57.

I was Mesa, never did Freedom

I worked at Mesa for a year, and I was there after the whole Freedom debacle. Never had anything to do with it. I worked there from January of last year to January of this year. As I said earlier, 11 months and 29 days too long. All the 900's are on Mesa's certficate now, on the AW side of things. I did most of my IOE in the 900, and that's the only time I ever flew it. I do, however, have a bunch of time in the 700's, probably more than the 200. I flew on the United side of things, and was based in BNA, which was primarily a 700 base when I was there. I spent a lot of time in Chicago O'Hell.

Anyway, I didn't think you'd be hostile. Hell, somebody that went to GIA should have all kinds of love for scabs, seeing as how the entire place is run by 'em.

Go back to your Koolaid now.