pinnacle class cancelled

[DetoXJ]

Ct George, you forgot the one about both peanuckle pilots falling asleep over Cetus and failed to descend and by the time they woke up they were almost out of gas way up high. Indeed, the list does go on and on.

 

[pilot'swife]

......

 

[No one]

Ct George, you forgot the one about both peanuckle pilots falling asleep over Cetus and failed to descend and by the time they woke up they were almost out of gas way up high. Indeed, the list does go on and on.

That's funny. Where did you hear that smack from?

By the way, what ever happened to... oh nevermind.

 

[SKYMASTER]

I can confirm all of this. This is not rumor.

Montana, that is true as well.

Oh, and don't forget about all the ridiculous Washington D.C. problems. The list goes on from there.

Be safe.

 

[No one]

I can confirm all of this. This is not rumor.

Montana, that is true as well.

Oh, and don't forget about all the ridiculous Washington D.C. problems. The list goes on from there.

Be safe.

What D.C. problems? Explain it.

 

[SKYMASTER]

They've had D.C. ATC compliance problems.

 

[training]

Where's "Training" when we need him????

It doesn't matter to me if class gets cancelled. I have my seniority and things are looking up. I will have 600 people below me by the end of the month. Captain, here i come.

 

[training]

What D.C. problems? Explain it.

Pinnacle has had numerous violations of the prohibited area while taking off from Reagan.

 

[No one]

Violations of the Prohibited Areas? This should be rich.

Please explain, training. Spew forth your (very limited) 500 hour wisdom.

 

[ShyFlyGuy]

Hey Shy, done with training?

Nope... covering electrical systems right now. What a b!tch!!!

Unfortunately, we're leaning a lot on some ChicEx's and Mesaba's stuff from people who are in the class... and it's helping too much. Ah growing pains. Still very optimistic.

Keep on plugging,

Shy

P.S. Everyone else, give Pinnacle a break. There still has been no proof of the canceled class... rumors in this industry travel at the speed of sound. I'm not sure if it's possible, but I would say that there is more "he-said, she-said" in this thread than the average thread. Doubt everything.

 

[training]

Violations of the Prohibited Areas? This should be rich.

Please explain, training. Spew forth your (very limited) 500 hour wisdom.

If you dont believe me then ask around, that stuff is true. Your probably a member of one of the violating dipshilt crews. Maybe you'll get fired so I can move up.

 

[Rook]

They've had D.C. ATC compliance problems.

2 RJ's and a 737. But no one cares about the '37 right?

Rook

 

[No one]

If you dont believe me then ask around, that stuff is true. Your probably a member of one of the violating dipshilt crews. Maybe you'll get fired so I can move up.

God knows that regional airlines don't need more geniuses like you flying around. I seriously doubt you physically occupy the right seat of anything other than an SUV or car. If you really are an FO and you eventually make Captain, please let me know who you are. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure you out because you'll be the one asking for Type IV for those pesky clouds and reporting level at 6000 and 300 kts.

I shat a better pilot than you this morning.

 

[boxjockey]

Training,

Please enlighten us on how you will have 600 people below you by the end of the month, only having 500 hours? Doesn't Pinnacle only have around 1200 pilots? What a douche....

box

 

[Fury220]

Training = flame bait. Nothing more. Ignore him and he'll go away.

 

[Flyer1015]

Yeah, but you gotta love some of his (albeit, flaimbait) comments:


"I'd fly the CRJ for for free if I had too"

"Training was so much fun, I didn't mind doing it for free."


Haaahahahaaa

I think some people here have been using those quotes as their signature (appearing at the end of message posting)

Training is full with funny sh*t.

 

[Flechas]

He's serious dude, he'll be a Captain very soon, hell, he has like 600 people under him already!

 

[Mel Sharples]

I've defended Pinnacle pilots as much as anyone. I do feel we are all about the same.

Obviously, they have had some very bad screw ups lately. In my opinion, it has more to do with poor manangement and leadership who create a culture that allows this stuff to happen. I thank god I work for a carrier who stresses safety above all else and whose chief pilots back us up. That is not meant to be a swipe at anyone. Many companies do not defend their pilots so quickly and end up pushing them into bad situations.

Plus, if your training sucked, how well do you think you will do on line? If you aren't paid in training, it makes it that much tougher.

I don't hate Pinnacle pilots at all. I honestly feel sorry for them because I don't think their company gives them the support they deserve.

As to the question "Which regional is perfect?" None of them are. We've all had our incidents. Unfortunately Pinnacle is having a lot of them lately. Hopefully the people in Memphis will wake up and start doing something about it.


Fly safe, everyone!

 

[Rook]

I've defended Pinnacle pilots as much as anyone. I do feel we are all about the same.

Obviously, they have had some very bad screw ups lately. In my opinion, it has more to do with poor manangement and leadership who create a culture that allows this stuff to happen. I thank god I work for a carrier who stresses safety above all else and whose chief pilots back us up. That is not meant to be a swipe at anyone. Many companies do not defend their pilots so quickly and end up pushing them into bad situations. Safety is supposed to be our number one 'guiding principle.' Unfortunately, the lack of a superior trng program and our 2 accidents isn't showing much on the side of safety.

Plus, if your training sucked, how well do you think you will do on line? If you aren't paid in training, it makes it that much tougher. Mel as long as there are guys that are lining up to take the job, mgmt. could care less about changing the policy of no pay and no lodging.

I don't hate Pinnacle pilots at all. I honestly feel sorry for them because I don't think their company gives them the support they deserve. Believe it or not we don't hate on anyone either. As an F/O I've only flown with one CA that had me nervous. As a CA I try to go out of my way to show the newer guys that adhering to company policies, flying the profiles, and knowing the contract is very important. Fly the plane the way the company wants you to and not 'cowboy' on anything is the best way to go.

As to the question "Which regional is perfect?" None of them are. We've all had our incidents. Unfortunately Pinnacle is having a lot of them lately. Hopefully the people in Memphis will wake up and start doing something about it. You'd think so Mel, the Feds have been watching us with an extra large microscope, so hopefully some positive changes will come about from all of these issues.


Fly safe, everyone!

u2




Rook

 

[414Flyer]

Pinnacle had a big ad in USA Today, a couple days ago, recruiting for pilots.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Training isn't going to be upgrading anytime soon with 505 hours.

 

[tsky]

is training for real, or is he just a prank?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

All I know is I'm down at the schoolhouse too until the end of this month... I wanna meet that guy for a beer.

 

[RideTheWind]

That's the quality of pilots pinnical has to upgrade, they refuse to pay for a hotel or pay you during your first 2 -3 months while you're in training. If they would just do one or the other they would get more qualified pilot applicants.

 

[Rook]

That's the quality of pilots pinnical has to upgrade, they refuse to pay for a hotel or pay you during your first 2 -3 months while you're in training. If they would just do one or the other they would get more qualified pilot applicants.

What the heck does not getting a hotel during initial have to do with the quality of the Captains at 9E? If you can come up with some data on how that could've helped me during upgrade let us all know.

Rook

 

[sweeper]

What the heck does not getting a hotel during initial have to do with the quality of the Captains at 9E? If you can come up with some data on how that could've helped me during upgrade let us all know.

Rook

Because the majority of applicants dont have a clue how to be a PIC. Low timers who cant get hired on anywhere else with their qualifications take a job at an airline that more qualified pilots wont apply to. Higher time pilots who have the experience to eventually be a captain, have a better self worth and wont give up 2-3 months salary, pay for meals, pay for a hotel, and still manage to pay all of their bills. IMO, its the equivalent of paying for training...you will lose the same amount of money either way.

That being said, not all low timers make bad PICs....and not all high time pilots make good PICs, we had several under 1000TT pilots at Eagle and a bunch were good pilots who would make good captains.

 

[DoinTime]

Because the majority of applicants dont have a clue how to be a PIC. Low timers who cant get hired on anywhere else with their qualifications take a job at an airline that more qualified pilots wont apply to. Higher time pilots who have the experience to eventually be a captain, have a better self worth and wont give up 2-3 months salary, pay for meals, pay for a hotel, and still manage to pay all of their bills. IMO, its the equivalent of paying for training...you will lose the same amount of money either way.

That being said, not all low timers make bad PICs....and not all high time pilots make good PICs, we had several under 1000TT pilots at Eagle and a bunch were good pilots who would make good captains.

How about new hire that would set their sights so low as to apply for work at a dead end carrier like American Eagle? Surely this must speak of their poor decision making skills to accept employment at a company with poor advancement opportunities. I am convinced that none of these people would make good captains.

Schmuck!

 

[IFIxUmUBrakeUm]

You are all forgeting that prior to the name change pinnacle wrecked 3 aircraft, 1 saab and 2 Jetstreams, In the early to mid 90's senators in MN wanted the airline banned from the state. Now they Have jets and a name change, but dont kid yourself they are still the same airline.

 

[sweeper]

How about new hire that would set their sights so low as to apply for work at a dead end carrier like American Eagle? Surely this must speak of their poor decision making skills to accept employment at a company with poor advancement opportunities. I am convinced that none of these people would make good captains.

Schmuck!

No argument there, I was hired mid 90's before the hiring boom upgraded then kept getting bounced back after every displacement, then I quit for a better job. I think the question should be why would anyone set their career sights so low as to stick around the dead end job for 10+ yrs. I'm not dumping on the PCL pilots just the way management runs an airline. Had a couple of friends get invited to the interview a while back, both with decent time and a couple of types...called to get listed on a flight to MEM, and there was no record of them. After calling HR to correct the problem, they were given the run around and were finally taken care of a week after the interview was scheduled. Both pilots declined the interview at that point and went elsewhere. I have heard similar stories as well in the past. If thats the way HR runs the show, then the quality of pilot will go down. And thats the way it works all over the industry not just PCL or AEA.

 

[Lear70]

- Flight in MKE continues with hydraulic problem and goes off runway; plane totalled

Plane has NOT been totalled. Pics are on the internet, bent a few spars around the gear strut mounts and some skin bent or ripped plus some flap damage. Back out flying probably in a few months.

- Flight in Montana turns the wrong way on missed approach and misses mountain top by few hundred feet

Incorrect. It wasn't on the missed, it was on the initial approach intercept. HLN does not have approach radar so if it's IMC they clear you to an initial approach fix (it's an arc) then clear you for the approach. The flight you're talking about flew to the VOR first (the VOR wasn't an IAF), then tried to turn to go to an IAF on the arc... unfortunately they were entering from the east and turned south which takes them right over a mountain and they got the GPWS alert. Fortunately, they responded appropriately and got it right the second time; it's covered material during a recurrent PT or PC these days.

- More than 10 times the number of violations of any other airline operating out of the same FSDO, even though size is smaller

Incorrect, although we DO have many more ongoing investigations into suspected violations than most other carriers, most of them are about crew duty and rest violations by Crew Scheduling than anything else. That's one thing that's VERY bad here; sometimes even if SBS (computer) tells you the flight is illegal, sometimes it's not and we can't realy on Crew Sked to tell us the truth and some pilots don't know the regs or don't watch them closely enough to catch the problems.

- Snowstorm shuts down entire airline; SOC can't cope and NWA steps in.

Again, not the fault of the pilot group, but of management not spending the money to get the proper tools (computers and programs) and staffing (SOC and flight ops) to run the airline properly. Our CEO said it best during the last meeting, "We are the most efficient CRJ operator in the world and we plan to keep it that way by increasing aircraft productivity". (Pilot asking) "Does that mean we won't be hiring more crews for how short-staffed we are?" (CEO) "We're not short-staffed, we're efficient."

Additionally, the aircraft over Cetus story is pure B.S. The CRJ has a BAD habit of having the radio break up as soon as you get over the lake inbound to Cetus and they were issued their crossing restriction late but didn't hear it for about 10 more miles. They missed the crossing restriction and someone made a wisecrack over the radio about "guess someone fell asleep" and it spun into "instant urban legend" status.

- And the list could go on and on. . .I have friends who fly for Pinnacle. For the love of god, and the safety of my friends, the other crews, and the traveling public, SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE!

You're correct, just be careful at pointing the finger at the pilot group... there are always screwups at EVERY airline out there, regional, fractional, charter, cargo, and major alike. The problem with PCL is not the people, it's management philosophy from who they hire to how they operate the airline.

Obviously, they have had some very bad screw ups lately. In my opinion, it has more to do with poor manangement and leadership who create a culture that allows this stuff to happen. I thank god I work for a carrier who stresses safety above all else and whose chief pilots back us up. That is not meant to be a swipe at anyone. Many companies do not defend their pilots so quickly and end up pushing them into bad situations. Safety is supposed to be our number one 'guiding principle.' Unfortunately, the lack of a superior trng program and our 2 accidents isn't showing much on the side of safety.

BINGO!

The class you're talking about wasn't cancelled, the GIA pilots were taken out of it and nobody is saying why. I've heard and suspect that it has to do with insurance requirements and FAA scrutiny after both accidents because (according to rumor mill) both crews were all GIA grads. The ad in the USA today was because we can't get anyone but low-timers to show up to class; rumor has it we have an 80% no-show rate for classes after the interview (I wonder why).

All the Street Captains from when I was hired would NOT have come here without pay or hotel during training and because of that they got a bunch of guys who had lots of previous experience in everything from Falcon 20 freight to 747 freight (and a bunch of stuff in between). I agree that if the company paid for those things during training (at least housing and per diem), they would get a much higher caliber of pilot in the classes, but that's a separate (and very sore) subject.