Pinnacle, can You believe this....

[SPIM]

Jetflier I am curious why you would so unproffessional as to share that story of the PNCL capt on a web board like this. If you helped out in that situation thats great but telling the world on the internet makes you look bad and is incredibly unproffessional. Maybe you arent who you say you are.

 

[rubberlayin]

I'm gonna pose one simple question. Well... two actually... Has a CRJ fueling with an engine running ever caused a mishap? Secondly, what exactly is more unsafe about the #2 engine running versus the apu?

 

[Dodge]

This is the best thread ever!!!!

 

[No one]

Who cares.

 

[rubberlayin]

I don't know the answer to the first question.

Second, if the APU was working, the #2 wouldn't have to be running and we wouldn't have to hot refuel.

IF THAT'S WHAT REALLY HAPPENED.

Why the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** did you respond? By your own admission you don't know the answer to the first part ... and to the second question you state an obvious which has nothing to do with the question posed. Next time just don't even bother; just leave it to those who can comprehend.

 

[Dodge]

If you want to know what your chief pilot said, i was told second hand by the NWA chief dispatcher who spoke to your chief pilot, he only relayed to me on acars what was said about hot refueling, and the fact that he was qouted as saying , "they did what?! when told about their being an empty cockpit while hot refueling.




NWA is a little gun-shy on the whole "leaving the cockpit with an engine running" thing. Call me strange, but if ain't noone in the seats, the engines shouldn't be spinning. I grew up in the south so forgiva me my english.

 

[No one]

See the edit you **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

.....

 

[DoinTime]

.... needless to say I am the NWA capt who observed this.

Then why did you write your original post in third person verbage?

A NWA pilot parked next door observed this, and upon seeing the refueling truck attempting to hook up his refueling while the adjectent right engine was running, went down to the nose area of the CRJ to have the refueler wait for the CRJ captain to shut doun the right engine before he attempted to refuel the CRJ.

The CRJ female captain promptly met the intrusive NWA pilot and told him that Pinnacle airlines can refuel with a right engine running when the apu is inop and the airport approves it.

While discussing the safety of refueling with the engine running on the same side as the refueiling is occuring, the NWA captain suddenly noticed a pilot comming around the tail of the CRJ, from right to left.

The NWA pilot asked the Pinnacle captain if that was her co-pilot? She proudly and promptly replied,....." why yes he is....." suddenly it seemed that the light bulb suddenly illiminated and the Pinnacle Capt had a look of befuddlement on her face.

I still think your full of sh*t.

 

[FL000]

Jetflier...you're a douchebag. Why do you feel it's necessary to write up the crew for a situation that you helped progress? If you had gone to the cockpit instead of the fueler, this wouldn't have happened. Nevermind the fact that you were frickin' WRONG on the hot fueling matter in the first place.

I discovered a Comair CRJ on the Atlanta ramp one night with the right engine running, no lights on and no one on the aircraft. I wasn't going to touch it, but got the attention of a ramp supervisor to shut it down (or get someone to) while I kept people from behind the engine. I didn't know who was responsible, but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't feel it necessary to play hall monitor and rat someone out. No harm, no foul. Don't be a dik.

 

[jetflier]

Jetflier...you're a douchebag. Why do you feel it's necessary to write up the crew for a situation that you helped progress? If you had gone to the cockpit instead of the fueler, this wouldn't have happened. Nevermind the fact that you were frickin' WRONG on the hot fueling matter in the first place.

I discovered a Comair CRJ on the Atlanta ramp one night with the right engine running, no lights on and no one on the aircraft. I wasn't going to touch it, but got the attention of a ramp supervisor to shut it down (or get someone to) while I kept people from behind the engine. I didn't know who was responsible, but even if I did, I certainly wouldn't feel it necessary to play hall monitor and rat someone out. No harm, no foul. Don't be a dik.

Hall Monitor....ratting out.....how old are you?

Flying people is a very exacting thing to do, just ask all the bold pilots from the old saying, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots"......

This is not high school where ratting out your class mate occurs, this is a business where can die if your you are not careful.
Other people can die by a careless pilots actions.

Maybe your not mature enough to be transporting people in jet aircraft..

 

[jetflier]

Then why did you write your original post in third person verbage?




I still think your full of sh*t.

I think you need a shrink

 

[Dodge]

Let us look at this a different way

Say instead of a big time NW pilot, it was a fed that didn't know the procedures of refueling the CRJ and the exact same events transpired. Would the fed have been meddling and told to stick it? Would he have reacted to nobody being in the cockpit while an engine is running? Would he have said anything at all?

Just some items to ponder.

 

[TonyC]

..., just ask all the bold pilots from the old saying, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots"......

Does the word "oxymoron" mean anything to you?







.

 

[FL000]

Hall Monitor....ratting out.....how old are you?

Flying people is a very exacting thing to do, just ask all the bold pilots from the old saying, "there are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots"......

This is not high school where ratting out your class mate occurs, this is a business where can die if your you are not careful.
Other people can die by a careless pilots actions.

Maybe your not mature enough to be transporting people in jet aircraft..

I'm not saying you should have let it go if you were concerned. I'm just saying that you should have proceeded to the cockpit instead of the wingroot. You essentially, though not purposely, baited the captain out of the cockpit which added to the chain of events which could have led to trouble. Had you done that, the discrepancy in opinions on the safety of the procedure could have been cleared up without an empty cockpit.

You helped turn a normal procedure into a bad situation, then wrote the crew up for it...all the while being wrong in your assumptions.

That being said, my previous post is not my proudest moment on FI.com, so I feel I owe you an apology for my rant.

 

[DoinTime]

Jetflier,

Pay no attention to the tools. This is coming from the pilot group who was f-ing around at FL410, flame out both engines and don't admit it to ATC until 11 minutes later and crash the airplane into a neighborhood several miles short of the runway. To bad noone was in the jumpseat to stick their nose into the pilots business and ask them what the hell they were doing. Consider the source. These guys obviously are just too cool for some "old mainline" guy to tell them what to do.

The entire PCL pilot group does not fit into the cockpit of a CRJ. That unfortunate flight was carried out by two INDIVIDUAL pilots. Just like not all of NWA's pilots are drunks and not all of Mesaba's pilots are cocky pricks, not all PCL pilots are daredevils or incompetent.

 

[Rook]

I'm gonna pose one simple question. Well... two actually... Has a CRJ fueling with an engine running ever caused a mishap? Secondly, what exactly is more unsafe about the #2 engine running versus the apu?

I think the scenario involved is an RJ with a deferred APU. Station requested hot refueling so they didn't have to bring out the ground equip.

Rook

 

[Dodge]

See, this all could have been avoided if the underpaid NW rampies wouldn't have been to busy to service the aircraft.

 

[dondk]

Sadly, there was no aircraft in SYR with a deferred APU recently. Unless someone comes up with the date.. I am calling this just another romp on Pinnacle pilots trying to do their jobs.

 

[DoinTime]

Sadly, there was no aircraft in SYR with a deferred APU recently. Unless someone comes up with the date.. I am calling this just another romp on Pinnacle pilots trying to do their jobs.

Don....I knew you would look that up.

 

[Kroll]

Doin Time - you need a vaction man. You should channel all your energy into something positive. I'm a bit of a lurker.....I read alot of your threads they come off a bit defensive and negetive. I could be wrong but this is how I see them. Is it your job to defend your company? Why does everyone here feel they are entitled to something? Things can change fast in life and "the place to be" maybe isn't so great, your shot at captain gone, you lose your medical, whatever. Life is short.

In another thread someone ask why no NWA mainline guys come here. Who would like post in here and read these irrational responses (not refering to you Doin Time). There are NWA boards that are a little more civil.

With regards to what jetflier did. If you saw something that you perceived wrong you would sit there? He obviously felt that there was a danger and confronted it. If the captain decide to meet him on the ramp thats their bad. We all make stupid mistakes! Lucky most of the time we stop the snowball before it's to big. The pilot that can't admit that they are wrong and that they make mistakes is a bad pilot in my book. Not saying that this crew didn't realize that after the fact. We don't know alot of facts. Did the 9e pilot react bad to being confronted. jetflier IMO maybe could have thrown a mulligan in here or there. He was totally justifed in what he did IMO. Yes he has a vested interest in what 9E, XJ do. As well his fellow pilots at NWA. As you guys have one in what NWA pilots do. Many times taxiing out someone will ask about a panel on another aircraft thats open. Is this sticking your nose where it does not belong?

With reguards to the stories at 9E. There has got to be some truth to them. Whether or not all aspects are 100%. It's no secret that the 9E pilots as a whole are a less experienced pilot group. This does not mean that they are bad pilots. Mix young, cocky, and inexperience, and poor training, someone deperate for time. You get a pilot that can't fly a hold (using a heading bug/ or old school methods).

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Who cares.

 

[fr8dogfo]

FWIW.....Just yesterday I witnessed a Comair CRJ have their lav serviced with the right engine running right above where the lav is serviced. Holy cow.....one wrong move and there would have been S*** everywhere. Guess you better add Comair to the list of incompentent airlines not to fly on. How do I know this, because I was sitting next to the engine and saw the trud hurst back up and then pull away.

Bottom line......unless you work for the company and know their procedures; butt out. If you think a violation of safety is occuring call your chief pilot or the FAA. Let them handle it.

For those who say they wont ride Pinnacle because they are unsafe and crash airplanes...well, better not fly NWA because they have had their share as well. Better not ride American either....wouldn't want to be onboard the next time a tail snaps off an Airbus....for that matter, go ahead and exclude all airlines flying A300s. Oh, and dont fly Delta....they have been known to fly through microburst. And Continental likes to depart with ice on the wings and remember the mechanics at COEX who left the screws out of the leading edge of the horizontal stab....better not fly on them either. You could always ride SWA...oh wait, they like to use the drive through in SMO or where ever it was they ran off the runway. I almost forgot United, since Al Haynes retired I doubt there is anyone left over there who could do what he did.....DONT GO!! RIDE THE BUS, then let me know how thats working for ya.

As for the barrel, snap, slow, fast rolls...whatever......get real!!!!

 

[acaTerry]

For those who say they wont ride Pinnacle because they are unsafe and crash airplanes...well, better not fly NWA because they have had their share as well. Better not ride American either....wouldn't want to be onboard the next time a tail snaps off an Airbus....for that matter, go ahead and exclude all airlines flying A300s. Oh, and dont fly Delta....they have been known to fly through microburst. And Continental likes to depart with ice on the wings and remember the mechanics at COEX who left the screws out of the leading edge of the horizontal stab....better not fly on them either. You could always ride SWA...oh wait, they like to use the drive through in SMO or where ever it was they ran off the runway. I almost forgot United, since Al Haynes retired I doubt there is anyone left over there who could do what he did.....DONT GO!! RIDE THE BUS, then let me know how thats working for ya.

As for the barrel, snap, slow, fast rolls...whatever......get real!!!!

I second this portion of his opinion.

 

[jetflier]

Jetflier,

Pay no attention to the tools. This is coming from the pilot group who was f-ing around at FL410, flame out both engines and don't admit it to ATC until 11 minutes later and crash the airplane into a neighborhood several miles short of the runway. To bad noone was in the jumpseat to stick their nose into the pilots business and ask them what the hell they were doing. Consider the source. These guys obviously are just too cool for some "old mainline" guy to tell them what to do.

Thanks dd for your support.

I can't believe all the occurances that 9E has had since Dec 2004, including the fl410 fatal crash.

The commuter that I worked for for seven years never had one fatal accident....com to think of it we never had one accident.....but you did have to have approx 3500 hours tt to get hired.

Nuf said...........

 

[jetflier]

I'm not saying you should have let it go if you were concerned. I'm just saying that you should have proceeded to the cockpit instead of the wingroot. You essentially, though not purposely, baited the captain out of the cockpit which added to the chain of events which could have led to trouble. Had you done that, the discrepancy in opinions on the safety of the procedure could have been cleared up without an empty cockpit.

You helped turn a normal procedure into a bad situation, then wrote the crew up for it...all the while being wrong in your assumptions.

That being said, my previous post is not my proudest moment on FI.com, so I feel I owe you an apology for my rant.

Thanx for the apology.......the reason I went to the refueler first is that I didn't want to blow up before I had the chance to find out what was up with the capts procedure........
It's hard to talk when you're blown up..............\

 

[theo]

Jetflier

Assuming you were there and did indeed witness these events, I see no reason other than hatefulness for publishing them on a web site like this. You apparently already reported it to the proper authorities at Pinnacle. I just don't see any "good" reason to bring it up here. Shame on you!

 

[jetflier]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the scenario involved is an RJ with a deferred APU. Station requested hot refueling so they didn't have to bring out the ground equip.

I was concerned with the #2 engine running on the same side of refueling that if a fuel leak occured the CF6 could have a fuel puddle beneath it an vacume up raw fuel which would most likely cause an explosion out the front of the #2 engine...right near the fuel truck.....not to mention the cockpit being unoccupied with passengers on boartd....

ken

Rook

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jetflier]

Jetflier

Assuming you were there and did indeed witness these events, I see no reason other than hatefulness for publishing them on a web site like this. You apparently already reported it to the proper authorities at Pinnacle. I just don't see any "good" reason to bring it up here. Shame on you!

there is a problem, with the unsafe culture at 9E ....Pinnacle.........all of us need to be aware in order to affect change. Dont you think that since Dec 2004 there is a very high number of occurances, both fatal and not fatal?

I won't put my family on them................

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Theres been a fatal accident since December 2004? When?


I know of a couple occurences of DC-9's mowing grass on the opposite ends of runways since then... that wasn't exactly 9E.... a pair of our guys did go offroading in MKE though.


Fly safe.. fly smart... fly standard.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Ken, now that you admit that you were the NWA pilot on scene maybe you can clear up a few details for us.

In your first post you said, in one paragraph, that you arrived before fueling started. In another paragraph, you said that you arrived after fueling started. Which one is it?

Also in post #23 of this thread you said "I think he arrived after the Pinnacle CA had began refueling"

What do you mean, "I think"? You were there, you should know.

I'm still calling BS on this whole thread.