Pinnacle, can You believe this....

[jetflier]

Why wouldn't the NWA pilot go to the cockpit to point out the alleged hazard to the crew instead of Barney Fifing the fueler? I'd say he had a strong hand in helping the chain of events that led to the empty cockpit. MYOFB.

As we all know, accidents/incidents aren't usually caused by one thing, but rather a series. Looks like this series was stopped cold by a good parking brake.

Why should the other pilot have to do the pinnacle pilots job for them....they after all the captain and f/o of a mach .84 airliner with 50 me,women and children on board.....arent they, ...or are they just playing like little kids.......

 

[Carl_Spackler]

The NWA pilot was wrong in his assumption that Pinnacle can't hot refuel.

 

[jetflier]

The NWA pilot was wrong in his assumption that Pinnacle can't hot refuel.[/QUOTE

Pinnacle chief pilot says that hot refueling is approved only for an engine on the other side.......

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Chief pilot is wrong.

Ken, were you there, or not? Simple question.

 

[jetflier]

How do you know? Were you there? There is no 757 service into SYR. Obviously the supposed eye witness has an ax to grind with not only female pilots but Pinnacle pilots as well. If this is second hand information to you your pretty gullible to believe every word of it. Posting it on a web board is even past gullible on the stupidity scale. So that makes you either an imbecile or a vindictive SOB that hates fellow union brothers and sisters. Which one is it Ken?

What does a 757 have to do with anything...........Maybe I was there......I have no ax to grind as I flew for two commuter airlines for over 8000 hours, most that as captain on a dash 7.....I would have reacted the same way if my wife , family or company passengers were on board. I only hope that I can say the same for your flights that you fly........

 

[Carl_Spackler]

It's not that hard of a question Ken. If you were not there, is it possible that your information is not reliable? Remember the game "Telephone"?

 

[DoinTime]

What does a 757 have to do with anything...........Maybe I was there......I have no ax to grind as I flew for two commuter airlines for over 8000 hours, most that as captain on a dash 7.....I would have reacted the same way if my wife , family or company passengers were on board. I only hope that I can say the same for your flights that you fly........

You say in your profile that you are a crewmember on a 757. NW does not service SYR with the 757 so you could not have been one of the crewmembers on the NW flight. You have been inconsistent with your story so far so maybe your profile is filled with lies though. You could have been non-reving on the flight but you still wouldn't have first hand knowledge on what was said because at best you witnessed all this through a window somewhere.

Ken, I know this is the first thread that you have ever posted on but in the future use these tips to avoid making yourself look like an a*s.

1) know what you are talking about.
2) don't quote people that don't know what they are talking about.
3) avoid blatant flaming of pilots bases on their gender.
4) don't present second hand hearsay as fact.
5) be consistent in your story.
6) read all posts and don't repeat issues after you have been proven wrong.

 

[CatYaaak]

As usual with non-standard ops (parked, engine running), one distraction (nosy NWA pilot) can lead one to revert to standard habits (leaving the cockpit) that elevate the simply non-standard into an unsafe condition. That's especially true when the situation is static, not dynamic, when we are more likely to focus. We're paid, however, to keep safety prioritized over things like inconvenience (interrupted refueling) no matter what the distraction or condition.

There's really no excuse for an engine-running empty cockpit. The captain or imaginary captain (if this is an imaginary event) messed up, no matter how understandable if could be human-factors-wise, by either leaving the cockpit after the F/O had already gone pre/postflighting, or by not ordering the F/O to remain in the cockpit, monitoring, until she was back. With authority comes responsiblity, after all. Nobody hurt, so it's a no-harm reminder of how any habit mis-applied can bite any of us.

 

[Lear70]

I don't understand why everyone thinks the NWA pilot was out of line. He went straight to the fueler with his concerns; the fueler had the abitlity to stop and check with the captain as to the policy of fueling with and engine running. BFD!

I don't think the NWA pilot was out of line, but he would have left the cockpit with his tail between his legs after I let him read the FOM about hot refueling. I wouldn't have minded the NW pilot's intrusion, and would have instructed his happy self to tell the fueler to finish his/her job on his way back to his aircraft. No harm, no foul.

His concerns were justified when BOTH pilots show up on the ramp with the engine running!

OK... I still believe this part of the story (if any of it is true at all) is pure flamebait. If it were coming from someone who had some history on Flightinfo, maybe, but not from a newbie poster. You guys are crawling all over it and Ken is laughing his a*s off somewhere...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Disapointed in all the professional pilots who have offered their "behind screen names" opinions.

Is it possible that the FO doing the walk around was the new crew taking the airplane? How factual is the account? Is this the professional way to discuss it.....

What is jetflier, the original posters, intention of posting such as story? Throwing a fellow pilot(s) under the bus?

Since the story may or may not be complete, how would YOU like a fellow pilot to precieve an event you were involved in and post it on flight info.....

 

[jetflier]

This is for the benefit of everyone that don't know sh*t about PCL procedures. Especially you, Ken.

Please see # 4,5,7,8 of your procedures, they were not followed.....and again your chief p said that the engine running had to be on the other side.......not the side that they are fueling on.....please don't shoot the messenger.......you sound a bit agitated........ask him what he said, i'm sure he'd tell you if you ask ...nicely

 

[jetflier]

You say in your profile that you are a crewmember on a 757. NW does not service SYR with the 757 so you could not have been one of the crewmembers on the NW flight. You have been inconsistent with your story so far so maybe your profile is filled with lies though. You could have been non-reving on the flight but you still wouldn't have first hand knowledge on what was said because at best you witnessed all this through a window somewhere.

Ken, I know this is the first thread that you have ever posted on but in the future use these tips to avoid making yourself look like an a*s.

1) know what you are talking about.
2) don't quote people that don't know what they are talking about.
3) avoid blatant flaming of pilots bases on their gender.
4) don't present second hand hearsay as fact.
5) be consistent in your story.
6) read all posts and don't repeat issues after you have been proven wrong.

You are so in tune with NWA we must work for the same company.....ya when I signed onto flight info I was a displaced 75 F/O, however now I find myself a a returned displacement back as capt on the DC9......NWA does fly DC('s into SYR and I know about this incident personally...How many posts have you assigned your name to......or had the guts to..........

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Ken, you still haven't answered the question of whether you were there or not.

You're story is losing credibility quickly.

 

[Dodge]

You are so in tune with NWA we must work for the same company.....ya when I signed onto flight info I was a displaced 75 F/O, however now I find myself a a returned displacement back as capt on the DC9......NWA does fly DC('s into SYR and I know about this incident personally...How many posts have you assigned your name to......or had the guts to..........

And that pretty much sums it up. Sounds to me as though HE was the NWA captain in said story. Also sounds like he himself had a chat with a 9E C.P.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Too bad that #2 is the engine that is required to be running in a hot refueling.

 

[igneousy2]

I couldn't resist...

1. It does not matter what the chief pilot says, thinks or believes, the manual is clear that when you hot refuel, the #2 engine shall be the operating engine. That's why every crewmember gets a copy of the manual.

2. The poster did not just use the pronoun "she" scattered throughout the post...he said "As the female CRJ capt pulled up to the gate"..."The CRJ female captain promptly met the intrusive NWA pilot" The adjective "female" would only be necessary if there were in fact two captains on the CRJ, the male captain and the female captain. The only real purpose for adding this additional information is to show (intentionally or unintentionally) your prejudice. Why did he not say the male NWA pilot?

I submit that this is not the same as simply using pronouns to indicate gender.

3. Posting your first name with the post has nothing to do with the credibility of your post. I wonder how many "Ken"s fly at NWA.

I think the captain has a big chip on his shoulder.

1. Would this captain have said anything if this CRJ was piloted by a man? Maybe not.

2. Would this captain have said anything if this was not a CRJ but a DC-9 flown by NWA? Not a chance.

3. and finally...Why after confronting the pilot would you go and try to wreck his/her career by running to the chief pilot after she obviously knew she had done something wrong? "suddenly it seemed that the light bulb suddenly illiminated and the Pinnacle Capt had a look of befuddlement on her face." Assuming this story is true, I would bet paychecks that this wouldn't happen again to this captain.



Later

 

[FN FAL]

The Pinnacle captains gender is irrellevant, but it looks like the poster here wants to make an issue of it.

True...If a woman can do it, it's not a man's job.

 

[Dodge]

and finally...Why after confronting the pilot would you go and try to wreck his/her career by running to the chief pilot after she obviously knew she had done something wrong?

Mesaba C.P.'s have been called a few times over the years by NWA non revs for not flying the Saab correctly. Apparently the C-130 and the Saab 340 are indeed not the same turboprop and are operated somewhat differently.

 

[AirBill]

When these guys and girls wreck perfectly good airplanes, run them off runways, and other antics it is very much the concern of NWA pilots. This pilot groups conduct drags down our corporate image.

Phew! Ugh! Smells like . . . like . . . mainline snootery!

I just love it when our mainline partners talk down about the supposedly lower quality of training at ABC Express/Connection/Airlink/Jetlink, whilst ABC Airlines is where the true professional works and I would NEVER send my family to fly with them and how can they get away with that kind of stuff?

Please.

I understand that what your so-called regional partners do reflects on your airlines. But remember, it goes the other way 'round, too. Not too long ago, a pilot from our mainline partner told one of our passengers as they were going through security: "Y'know, you don't have the best pilots." The passenger replied: "At least they're safe, huh?" The pilot said: "Well . . . " FA overheard it, and I confirmed it with the passenger, who really took it well considering.

Where I work, the saying goes that it's not truly winter until our mainline partner puts one off the runway. This year, they had two!

Just remember, boneheads come in all shapes and sizes, and the biggest boneheads fly the biggest planes. Don't come selling that regionals-are-unsafe crap here. I've heard it all before, and frankly it's boring.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Phew! Ugh! Smells like . . . like . . . mainline snootery!

I just love it when our mainline partners talk down about the supposedly lower quality of training at ABC Express/Connection/Airlink/Jetlink, whilst ABC Airlines is where the true professional works and I would NEVER send my family to fly with them and how can they get away with that kind of stuff?

Please.

I understand that what your so-called regional partners do reflects on your airlines. But remember, it goes the other way 'round, too. Not too long ago, a pilot from our mainline partner told one of our passengers as they were going through security: "Y'know, you don't have the best pilots." The passenger replied: "At least they're safe, huh?" The pilot said: "Well . . . " FA overheard it, and I confirmed it with the passenger, who really took it well considering.

Where I work, the saying goes that it's not truly winter until our mainline partner puts one off the runway. This year, they had two!

Just remember, boneheads come in all shapes and sizes, and the biggest boneheads fly the biggest planes. Don't come selling that regionals-are-unsafe crap here. I've heard it all before, and frankly it's boring.

Bump.

 

[TinGoose1]

I think what everyone is trying to say without actually saying it is that 9E has more than it's fair share of bone-heads........Granted, we all have the strange and unusual pilot working at our airlines, but 9E is setting the curve.

 

[doublepsych]

This guy came to XJ from 9E...

...Mesaba had a guy fired a few years ago; the "last straw" was leaving the aircraft with the fo on board and one engine running. He was an exception, a problem child. Every airline has a few.../QUOTE]

 

[dondk]

This guy came to XJ from 9E...

what does one have to do with the other? EVERY arline has boneheads in the cockpit, EVERY airline has problem children in the cockpit..

I can go on about drunks, child abusers, wife abusers, sexual harasser's and a myriad of other unethical, saftey related, or illegal activities.

the point is, if this happened, it is over and done with. I would like to know how the NWA Captain got the 9E captain's attention to drag them out of the cockpit.

 

[cforst513]

i'm surprised nobody got suckd into the engine: passengers, fuelers, the pilots. those CRJ engines are wicked powerful!

 

[dondk]

If this really happened.. just give us the date... One look in SBS and we can call this a bluff or not.

So how about providing the date.. no harm no foul to the one who initiated this "story"

 

[IHaveAPension]

Living in the Memphis area it's hard, but I avoid riding on Pinnacle at all costs. Threads like this just reinforce my belief on that policy.

 

[mayoplane]

It's amazing how many people can bash on 9E for such inaccurate info that came from Jetflier. Not to keep the right engine running when refuling from the right side with the jet bridge connected on the left side? Do you even know what hot refuel is? Do you know anything about CRJ? He wasn't there, he didn't know the procedure, he acts like he spoke to our chief pilot........... She made a mistake leaving the cockpit....OK, so it was a mistake. Like I have said before, we have seen ASA pilots landing on a taxiway, taking off with the pin in the nose gear, major airline landing on wrong airports, big airplane taking off with no flaps......yet, you all have so much fun bashing on Pinnacle for 'could happened to anyone, any airline' mistake..... give me a break. Landing on a taxiway could have killed a lot of people, and I hope you avoid riding on them too. Landing on a wrong airport with no airport analysis or numbers could have been deadly too. If you really think your pilots are so much better, you're smoking crack.

 

[b82rez]

Although a lot of threads on flightinfo crack me up, I've decided that these Pinnacle bashing ones are by far the funniest. Keep em coming!!

 

[DoinTime]

Just wait until the NTSB report comes out for 3701 which says the crew did two barrel rolls out of Little Rock.

Aileron rolls....maybe. Barrel rolls....out of the question. The CRJ is not capable of enough nose-down elevator to do a barrel roll, nor do I believe the CRJ would respond very well to a sustained zero to negative g environment.

 

[b82rez]

Aileron rolls....maybe. Barrel rolls....out of the question. The CRJ is not capable of enough nose-down elevator to do a barrel roll, nor do I believe the CRJ would respond very well to a sustained zero to negative g environment.

Barrel rolls are all positive G manuevers.

From IAC
During a barrel roll, the pilot always experiences positive Gs. The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G. The minimum about 0.5 G.