Pinnacle APU usage crackdown.

[Crowing Rooster]

Pinnacle APU use crackdown.

In light of the recent memo on APU use…

CFM 4-16 “In event that external ground equipment is not available, the APU is used.”
and
FOM 9-55 “If ground air is not available, the APU, if available, may be used.”

There are those in management that take this to mean that if there is working power and the jet bridge has working air then the APU is not to be used because they are available. PACKS should be on the tenth stage bleeds all the way to the gate. Leave one engine running until external power is hooked up. Then shut remaining engine down and hope external air is hooked up.

I have a problem with that interpretation of available.

At the hub, say the flight lands early or on time. With engines at idle power, the 10th stage bleed is hardly enough to drive the packs. Meanwhile, due to body heat and the summer sun beating down on the fuselage, the cabin temperature rises to 30C and higher.

To add to the sauna like atmosphere, there is a minimal 15 minute wait for a gate and/or a wait for ramp personnel to park the aircraft. All the while in the back tempers are rising with the temperature as this once on time flight blocks in late and the passengers are sweating weather they are going to make connections. This is unacceptable.

Keep in mind on page 9-55 of the FOM it is written that “Cabin temperature should normally be maintained between 4.4C and 21.1C…Ground air …primary source….” “If ground air is not available, the APU…, may be used.”

And also keep in mind…

On page 4-101 of the CFM it is also written “The APU or external air is used if the OAT is less than 40F or greater than 70F.” “If external power is available and the APU is running, the crew shuts down the APU when external power is connected to the aircraft.”

Now if we are to maintain acceptable cabin temperatures it seems we need to utilize the APU until both external power and external air are connected. The definition of available in this case would mean available for use on the aircraft, when the passengers can benefit. After all, are not the passengers what this business is about?

 

[CA1900]

Look at it this way: While you're taxiing in, and until it's hooked up and running, it isn't "available." Fire it up!

 

[BrownStreak]

P!ss on management. I'm running that APU from 10000 to the gate and all the way to the after takeoff checks....the 200 gets too hot otherwise.

 

[Inconceivable]

Seriously, go sit in 13A on a hot summer day with a LGA ground stop. I wouldn't even do that to David White.

Mostly because DW would be in 13A and B! Ha!

 

[yournextFO]

Well, as a Captain you are responsible for the safety of your passengers. Seems to me that would mandate running the APU for air-conditioning while waiting for a gate.

 

[veneratio]

******************** that ********************, I start the APU as soon as I get to the aircraft. Half the time the External Air is (too warm in the summer time OR freezing cold in the winter time). And when I call ops, it takes them 10 ********************ing minutes to either connect it or disconnect it.

I look at is this way, Airlines were going bankrupt when oil was $20, $40, $60, $80, $100, $120 dollars a barrel so they will always go bankrupt and ask for concessions. Run those APU"s boys and girls and keep yourself and the pax confy!!! You are PIC, if you determine that you need it, use it....

 

[PA44Jockey]

Flying out of Florida, half the time you can have the APU running on a 30 minute turn and the cabin will still reach 36 C.

 

[Hovernut]

If they're that anal about the APU, then fine, taxi in on both with one in reverse at 30% to keep the 10th stage pressure up, and when stopped, run 'em both up to at least the mid 70s N2 for enough duct pressure.

 

[SaturnPilot]

every pinnacle pilot needs to run the APU from the time they get to the a/c (try to get there a couple hours early) until 10000 ft, and then from 10000 ft till you have to leave the a/c. If they want to reduce apu usage they can sign a f(*&*&^ contract!

 

[xjgearbtch]

Why stop at 10,000 keep her running till 15K?

 

[DoinTime]

The only appropriate response to this memo is to burn the b*tch all day long.

 

[Flyer1015]

every pinnacle pilot needs to run the APU from the time they get to the a/c (try to get there a couple hours early) until 10000 ft, and then from 10000 ft till you have to leave the a/c. If they want to reduce apu usage they can sign a f(*&*&^ contract!

Too bad most Captains I fly with want to "help the company" when it comes to APU usage.

wth?

 

[SaturnPilot]

Too bad most Captains I fly with want to "help the company" when it comes to APU usage.

wth?

d-bags...these types of people need to start being singled out! buddy f*ckers

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

Seriously, go sit in 13A on a hot summer day with a LGA ground stop. I wouldn't even do that to David White.

Mostly because DW would be in 13A and B! Ha!

How is his sorry ass still on the seniority list anyway? There should be no contract signed until he is removed! How many consecutive months can you be on the "no fly" list anyway?

 

[Lazy8]

Too bad most Captains I fly with want to "help the company" when it comes to APU usage.

wth?

I've flown with a bunch of these tightwads lately. I don't get it. We sat at the gate in DTW for 20 minutes running an engine the other day before finally someone plugged it up. wth indeed. I guess some people are just a bit stubborn.

All winter in DTW the only aircraft (that I saw) that received ground air were the Mesaba -900's. I suspect it will be the same for the summer. It's like they're taught to treat Pinnacle flights like dogsh*t. Unless we specifically call ops and ask for ground power and/or air THEN go outside 10 minutes later and grab a ramper to actually do it then it won't happen.

It's not the fuel Pinnacle is concerned about, it's the APU cycles.

 

[bluefishbeagle]

When I went to work for the big Peanuckle my backround was corporate and running the APU was done only when needed (the boss was on board or would be shortly) keep costs down was paramount to keeping a job.

I mentioned to TM that the APU's were being used excessively, he said "we are not worried about APU usage, NW pays for the overhuals. OK.......

After a few of them came up for overhual and the costs were realized it suddenly became a problem.

Although I'm no longer at the big "P" if there I would look at APU usage the same as today, if the boss is on board run it.

Paying passenger's ARE the boss. Keepum happy and cool. Keep up the good work guy/gals and I wish you the best. :beer:

 

[turbinej]

When I was there that had always been the policy. they enforced it in 2002-03 very heavily. They stressed not using the APU is that they are leased on the aircraft and the engines are not. It cost PCL more money to run the APU then to keep the engine spinning. Want increased airflow bump the thrust up on an engine.

 

[SaturnPilot]

or just keep running the APUs until they sign a contract

 

[Charty]

The only time that should be done is if PT's dumb a$$ is on board in the summer so he can see how hot it gets.

 

[PCL_128]

or just keep running the APUs until they sign a contract

Bingo!

 

[SaturnPilot]

The only time that should be done is if PT's dumb a$$ is on board in the summer so he can see how hot it gets.

hopefully that would give him another stroke!

 

[Crowing Rooster]

In an April 2007 interview “'theVP of flight ops. was asked whether there was a completion clause in the company’s contract with NWA, under which the company received money based on the number of scheduled trips completed, he indicated that this was part of a complex payment formula. The company was paid for many factors that included percent of completed trips, on-time departures, fuel burn rates, APU usage.’”

Y’all realize if you run the leased APU’s up to 10,000ft. this has the potential to lessen Pinnacle Corporations compensation.

There will be a rash of APU deferrals like last summer. I.E. air traffic controller asked me last summer “Why were there 14 flights asking for a place to do cross bleed starts.” He thought it might be a new procedure and I told him it was a rash of deferred APU’s.

One problem with deferred APU’s is that the heat will generate customer complaints.

The other problem with deferred APU’s is that Pinnacle does not have many huffer carts. So this has the potential for wrecking on time performance while waiting for a huffer. Also the huffer start procedure is time consuming and also may generate some delays even if you do not have to wait for a huffer.

 

[PCL_128]

Good. Those issues will get management to wake up and give you a new contract.

And remember, if it's too hot in the cabin and the APU's deferred, then refuse the airplane.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Good. Those issues will get management to wake up and give you a new contract.

And remember, if it's too hot in the cabin and the APU's deferred, then refuse the airplane.

Good call... keep in mind to word the refusal...

"I am refusing to operate this jet until the cabin is cool"

Simply refusing to fly can get one is trouble... that damm RLA.

 

[PCL_128]

Very true. Pilots delay flights, SOC cancels them. Simply tell them that you will not be able to operate the flight until the cabin is cooled down or the APU is fixed, for reasons of passenger and crew safety.

 

[Smarta$$]

In an April 2007 interview “'theVP of flight ops. was asked whether there was a completion clause in the company’s contract with NWA, under which the company received money based on the number of scheduled trips completed, he indicated that this was part of a complex payment formula. The company was paid for many factors that included percent of completed trips, on-time departures, fuel burn rates, APU usage.’”

Y’all realize if you run the leased APU’s up to 10,000ft. this has the potential to lessen Pinnacle Corporations compensation.

There will be a rash of APU deferrals like last summer. I.E. air traffic controller asked me last summer “Why were there 14 flights asking for a place to do cross bleed starts.” He thought it might be a new procedure and I told him it was a rash of deferred APU’s.

One problem with deferred APU’s is that the heat will generate customer complaints.

The other problem with deferred APU’s is that Pinnacle does not have many huffer carts. So this has the potential for wrecking on time performance while waiting for a huffer. Also the huffer start procedure is time consuming and also may generate some delays even if you do not have to wait for a huffer.

All fantastic reasons to run the apu to 15,000 up and down every time.

Contract NOW.

 

[Smarta$$]

Also, when arriving at an outstation a little late, set the brake imediately and do NOT reset before opening the cabin door.

This can eat 2-5 minutes off the 25 min required turn times. I actually had a station manager wait over five minutes to give us the signal to open the door so they could get the green tags next to the plane.

When he came aboard he said that he was waiting to get the green tags out of the bin because he "knew" that the 25 minutes starts when the door opens.

To bad for him, the time had actually started five minutes sooner. Too bad. No bonus for pt. and the goones.

 

[submachXJ]

I've flown with a bunch of these tightwads lately. I don't get it. We sat at the gate in DTW for 20 minutes running an engine the other day before finally someone plugged it up. wth indeed. I guess some people are just a bit stubborn.

All winter in DTW the only aircraft (that I saw) that received ground air were the Mesaba -900's. I suspect it will be the same for the summer. It's like they're taught to treat Pinnacle flights like dogsh*t. Unless we specifically call ops and ask for ground power and/or air THEN go outside 10 minutes later and grab a ramper to actually do it then it won't happen.

It's not the fuel Pinnacle is concerned about, it's the APU cycles.

Well as far as air and GPU on airplanes the Saab rated just as well as Pinnacles CRJ's this winter and every winter and summer. There was nothing connecting the Saabs to the ground except the tires. And a fuel line for a while. Sometimes the tailstand. Oh yeah what is an APU? Sounds cool when they work.

It's unbiased laziness/oversight:erm:

 

[SaturnPilot]

In an April 2007 interview “'theVP of flight ops. was asked whether there was a completion clause in the company’s contract with NWA, under which the company received money based on the number of scheduled trips completed, he indicated that this was part of a complex payment formula. The company was paid for many factors that included percent of completed trips, on-time departures, fuel burn rates, APU usage.’”

Y’all realize if you run the leased APU’s up to 10,000ft. this has the potential to lessen Pinnacle Corporations compensation.

There will be a rash of APU deferrals like last summer. I.E. air traffic controller asked me last summer “Why were there 14 flights asking for a place to do cross bleed starts.” He thought it might be a new procedure and I told him it was a rash of deferred APU’s.

One problem with deferred APU’s is that the heat will generate customer complaints.

The other problem with deferred APU’s is that Pinnacle does not have many huffer carts. So this has the potential for wrecking on time performance while waiting for a huffer. Also the huffer start procedure is time consuming and also may generate some delays even if you do not have to wait for a huffer.

excellent points...all of these factors will take notice from management. If all PCL pilots run the hell out of the APUs, do NOT EVER rush to get a flight out on time (think safety), taxi at a reasonable speed (on 2 engines always to minimize "heads down" time of the FO), etc, then you will effect the performance dear to management. Keep it up long enough and hopefully the will finally sign a contract.

 

[Windsor]

Why stop apu usage at 15K? Run the sucker the entire flight. Just remember to transfer the bleeds before 15K or you'll get a little "Ding" and Bleed Misconfig message to remind you.

I was under the impression the 9E pays for APU fuel, not NWA. I may be wrong. Wouldnt be the first time. Either way, I really dont care what the memo says. If the plane is hot and needs to be cooled off, APU will be run. Plane is cold and needs to be heated up, APU will run. At outstation on a quick turn, APU will run. I have a bead of sweat on my forehead, APU will run.

This memo is just another in a long line of crap from mismanagement aimed at eroding PIC authority and good use of common sense.