Pinnacle and Colgan seniority lists?

[prtyprtyprncss]

I know it was in here somewhere a while back...a link to the seniority lists for 9E and 9L...anyone here who can point me to it? Thanks!

 

[Flyer1015]

A seniority list, with names, DOH, DOBs, is personal information. It should be available only to those on the seniority list. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with our seniority list randomly floating around the internet. Identity theft usually starts with someone getting your full name and DOB..........

 

[higney85]

All 3 "finalized lists" are controlled documents at the moment to my understanding.

 

[xjhawk]

It will be up to the 9 guys to figure out our new list. Lets just hope they come up with something fair. On a side note, I am one of many at mesaba who is getting pretty much the same contract I have now with slight increases in work rules for line holders, and much worse for reserve rules and a little better health care while some at colgan and pinnacle are getting double digit pay raises and QOL improvements to their rules. I am just saying......what goes around comes around right?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

Don't forget that you are also avoiding the unknown of an assent transfer if there was no jcba. In other words, you now have much more job security. I would say that is a pretty big benefit.

 

[CptMurf]

Don't forget that you are also avoiding the unknown of an assent transfer if there was no jcba. In other words, you now have much more job security. I would say that is a pretty big benefit.

I wouldn't call that a benefit at all. Well, maybe for you to gain seniority at my loss, but that's about it. At least a loss of aircraft/flying goes in reverse seniority order, or would you have me leave first too to protect your schedule?!?

 

[DoinTime]

On a side note, I am one of many at mesaba who is getting pretty much the same contract I have now with slight increases in work rules for line holders, and much worse for reserve rules and a little better health care while some at colgan and pinnacle are getting double digit pay raises and QOL improvements to their rules. I am just saying......what goes around comes around right?

Would you rather be an FO?

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I wouldn't call that a benefit at all. Well, maybe for you to gain seniority at my loss, but that's about it. At least a loss of aircraft/flying goes in reverse seniority order, or would you have me leave first too to protect your schedule?!?

With Mesaba losing the saabs and facing furloughs, would you rather not have a SLI and take your chances with your current contract language when the asset transfer happens? If there is little to no benefit to the XJ group, are you going to vote no on the TA?

 

[CptMurf]

Would you rather be an FO?

With relative seniority he might be anyway. And from his earlier posts for a long, long time.

 

[CptMurf]

With Mesaba losing the saabs and facing furloughs, would you rather not have a SLI and take your chances with your current contract language when the asset transfer happens? If there is little to no benefit to the XJ group, are you going to vote no on the TA?

Seems either way I have the possibility to lose QOL/Pay. I will speak to my reps, hope for the best, and bid to move with the aircraft (or not) to protect MY QOL. Hope you enjoy the enhancements over TA1 that XJs entrance to this merger brought you though.

This is why you cannot discuss the SLI during JCBA negotiations. The contract must be fair on it's own merits. And voted in or not, on those merits. The SLI can however discuss the windfalls gained in the JCBA.

 

[Smarta$$]

It will be up to the 9 guys to figure out our new list. Lets just hope they come up with something fair. On a side note, I am one of many at mesaba who is getting pretty much the same contract I have now with slight increases in work rules for line holders, and much worse for reserve rules and a little better health care while some at colgan and pinnacle are getting double digit pay raises and QOL improvements to their rules. I am just saying......what goes around comes around right?

So are you saying 9E and 9L pilots will get a better contract than XJ? Or will we be equal, and have the same pay and benefits?

9E was already GOING to get a similar contract (eventually). This JCBA did not exceed our contract requirements set by the MEC. We have what we were going to get anyways. So, I consider us equal. Which coincidentally, we are.

 

[Smarta$$]

Seems either way I have the possibility to lose QOL/Pay. I will speak to my reps, hope for the best, and bid to move with the aircraft (or not) to protect MY QOL. Hope you enjoy the enhancements over TA1 that XJs entrance to this merger brought you though.

This is why you cannot discuss the SLI during JCBA negotiations. The contract must be fair on it's own merits. And voted in or not, on those merits. The SLI can however discuss the windfalls gained in the JCBA.

Explain how you or your MEC are responsible for this beyond having scope in your contract? If it is only scope, that is a pretty weak argument.

 

[CptMurf]

So are you saying 9E and 9L pilots will get a better contract than XJ? Or will we be equal, and have the same pay and benefits?

9E was already GOING to get a similar contract (eventually). This JCBA did not exceed our contract requirements set by the MEC. We have what we were going to get anyways. So, I consider us equal. Which coincidentally, we are.

Well... I'd say were working under the same contract. I suspect the 9L guys aren't feeling so "equal" with the Saab and Q400 rates.

I guess we'll never know if you were going to get a contract equal to the TA. To make a braisen statement like that is "counting chickens before they hatch." Fact is, 9E brought TA1 to the table, the JCBA is better than TA1, the increases in the TA are due to what XJ brought to the table and they skill of the negotiators. The XJ purchase and merger HAS been a good thing for 9E/9L pilots. Alas, XJ pilots have not seen the same gains.

 

[RJLoser]

So your saying your greatly skilled negotiators brought jack to the table for you. Not so skilled in my eyes.

 

[CptMurf]

Explain how you or your MEC are responsible for this beyond having scope in your contract? If it is only scope, that is a pretty weak argument.

I'm lost. What does the "this" in your question refer to?

My statements were...
One way or the other I will have to deal with the SLI by accepting my new seniority or by changing aircraft/domicile/seat to increase QOL.

The SLI can include windfalls from the JCBA.

My MEC has nothing to do with either.

 

[CptMurf]

So your saying your greatly skilled negotiators brought jack to the table for you. Not so skilled in my eyes.

Still confusing Section 6 with the JCBA. The whole point was to merge the 3 contracts and adapt language. The win was to pick the best of all three. We had to trade some good for some bad. Thus the loss in 9E insurance. There was never a chance at negotiating a contract above the best of the three. They did well. My only complaint is the carve outs in pay (Saab/Q) and min day.

 

[Smarta$$]

Seems either way I have the possibility to lose QOL/Pay. I will speak to my reps, hope for the best, and bid to move with the aircraft (or not) to protect MY QOL. Hope you enjoy the enhancements over TA1 that XJs entrance to this merger brought you though.

This is why you cannot discuss the SLI during JCBA negotiations. The contract must be fair on it's own merits. And voted in or not, on those merits. The SLI can however discuss the windfalls gained in the JCBA.

I will underline it again for you.

How exactly is XJ responsible for the enhancements beyond your scope. The contents of the contract would have been achieved when our time on ice expired. As I said, the JCBA did not exceed the requirements set by our MEC, and they gave the negotiators strict orders not to bother agreeing to less than our requirements. When the NMB took us off ice, we would have achieved something similar to JCBA.

The people responsible for TA1 were removed and those negotiating on our behalf for TA2 were top notch.

Your scope, and the companies desire to move aircraft led to the JCBA. I give you marginal credit for the scope provisions, nothing more.

 

[CptMurf]

I will underline it again for you.

How exactly is XJ responsible for the enhancements beyond your scope. The contents of the contract would have been achieved when our time on ice expired. As I said, the JCBA did not exceed the requirements set by our MEC, and they gave the negotiators strict orders not to bother agreeing to less than our requirements. When the NMB took us off ice, we would have achieved something similar to JCBA.

The people responsible for TA1 were removed and those negotiating on our behalf for TA2 were top notch.

Your scope, and the companies desire to move aircraft led to the JCBA. I give you marginal credit for the scope provisions, nothing more.

If you underlined it, it didn't show up in the app I use to post. And apologize to have you restate the question.

My rebuttal would be...
When? 2 wks? 2 years? 6 years?
And are you sure it would be equal? I can remember people pounding their fists and saying Comair or better during our negotiations '04. Needless to say we signed for less. Never count on an aircraft until you finish IOE on it, a payrate until your cashing the check, or a contract until your holding your own paper copy. Everything else is speculation and wishful thinking.

Dude, I'm not saying bow down to XJ guys or their contract. Just give some credit that we brought a contract with some good provisions and overall have help the process of merging these 3 companies with terms good for all of us.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah when I look at what I got in compared to what some at Pinnacle and Colgan got in reference to increases I am thinking wow I got terrible 9E like reserve rules (long call being the only good thing) and better insurance? They get double digit increases and greatly improved QOL-maybe just maybe that is concidered a windfall. So just maybe I might be given some credit when we do SLI. If we do not, I will be getting the worse end of both sticks-losing years of seniority and crappy reserve rules....god I hope that does not happen.

 

[Smarta$$]

If you underlined it, it didn't show up in the app I use to post. And apologize to have you restate the question.

My rebuttal would be...
When? 2 wks? 2 years? 6 years?
And are you sure it would be equal? I can remember people pounding their fists and saying Comair or better during our negotiations '04. Needless to say we signed for less. Never count on an aircraft until you finish IOE on it, a payrate until your cashing the check, or a contract until your holding your own paper copy. Everything else is speculation and wishful thinking.

Dude, I'm not saying bow down to XJ guys or their contract. Just give some credit that we brought a contract with some good provisions and overall have help the process of merging these 3 companies with terms good for all of us.

To your final point, I do give credit. I believe it has much to do with you being released in 2004, and your good union leadership (which we lacked, in part, until the demise of TA1).

Our present contract is from 1999. If we hadn't been strung along for 6 years, we could also have made a contribution similar to yours.

But that does not mean you get to consider our contract improvements in SLI, because they were long overdue and would have been realized by us with or without the merger.