Pinnacle Airlines

[Detroitpilot22]

It seems like everyone always bashes this airline becuase they don't have anything better to do.
For everyone that is interested in working here, here is some fact and fiction about this place that might make you think differently about this place.

1 - People say that We are losing 30 pilots a month becuase everyone is quitting. This is not true at all. We are losing about 10 to 20 a month because they are getting hired at majors, or fractionals like net jets.

2 - Pay - For captains it is descent, could be improved. For F/O's, it is not good, but our union is trying hard to make it better.

3. Quality of life - If you live in base it is excellent. The average days off for august lines is close to 17. If you do not live in base, at times it can be challenging. You have the ability to try and drop and swap trips to get a better commute. Scheduling can be a pain when we are short,, but it is another thing that our union is working hard to fix.

4. Pay for training pilots. I am not one of them, but I can tell you that our check airmen and sim instructors are good at seeing if everyone is ready, not just the low time people. If you aren't good in class and in the sim, you wash out. I think it is important to note that other regionals hire low time pilots too.

5. The northwest RFP and our flying up for bid. Those of you who think that this airline is going to lose 124 jets in one week and everyone get furloughed are crazy. Granted there is a real possibility that we might lose some airplanes, maybe to mesaba who knows but if there is one thing I know about our management, it is that they aren't just going to let this company crumble. In our negotiations with NWA, we are looking for relief to be able to fly with other airlines so there is possiblity to put our eggs in more than one basket. Will we get 70 seat aircraft for NWA? Who knows, its a possiblity, but look for this place to fly for more than just the red tail in the future.


I am not saying this is the greatest place in the world to work, but it is not what some people say it is and it is a place that will get you to a major quicker than some other airlines.
Hopefully this answered some questions for some people.

 

[fatdumbandhappy]

Hello,
Is it easy to get MSP out of training? And what is the upgrade looking like these days? Also, about how many years have the “Guys that are getting hired by the Majors/etc” been at Pinnacle?

Thanks

 

[Yknot]

one reason i bash this airline is this...today, about 8:00am, on Indy center, i heard a Pinnacle flight requesting FL410. they were given FL410 by center.

forgive me if i'm incorrect, but didn't two of your guys learn a terrible lesson by doing that? especially trying to get CRJ200 to that altitude in the summer. NOT smart!!!

 

[BoilerUP]

...the more you know!

Did you hear "Pinnacle xxxx" request FL410, or "Flagship xxxx" request FL410?

"Pinnacle" is a charter company flying Lears & other aircraft that can easily do 410 and above, while "Flagship" is Pinnacle Airlines flying CL65s that can't do anywhere near that, especially full and/or ISA+.

 

[flyboyike]

I have a suggestion: why don't we all bash Air Tahiti Nui instead? They only have two airplanes, fly to only two cities and speak French.

 

[Yknot]

BoilerUp,

my bad, i apologize to all Flagshippers.

YKnot

 

[Detroitpilot22]

one reason i bash this airline is this...today, about 8:00am, on Indy center, i heard a Pinnacle flight requesting FL410. they were given FL410 by center.

forgive me if i'm incorrect, but didn't two of your guys learn a terrible lesson by doing that? especially trying to get CRJ200 to that altitude in the summer. NOT smart!!!

We are restricted to 37000, there is no way that happened and you are making it up.

 

[PCL_128]

1 - People say that We are losing 30 pilots a month becuase everyone is quitting. This is not true at all. We are losing about 10 to 20 a month because they are getting hired at majors, or fractionals like net jets.

Your information is incorrect. We lost 25% of our FOs last year. Since last year we have averaged a loss of 9 Captains a month and 20 FOs. ALPA recently did an audit at our request to determine where all these FOs were going. The results showed that a very small number of them went to Fractionals, LCCs, or Majors. Most of them left for other regionals or left aviation all together. We do have Captains leaving for those "good" jobs, but they only account for less than a third of our attrition. Most of our attrition is due to FOs leaving to go to other regionals or other careers.

2 - Pay - For captains it is descent, could be improved. For F/O's, it is not good, but our union is trying hard to make it better.

Your definition of decent is a lot different than mine. As for FO pay, it isn't just "not good," it's downright insulting. You're certainly correct that we are working hard to fix it, but that takes time. Don't count on a quick new contract.

3. Quality of life - If you live in base it is excellent. The average days off for august lines is close to 17. If you do not live in base, at times it can be challenging. You have the ability to try and drop and swap trips to get a better commute. Scheduling can be a pain when we are short,, but it is another thing that our union is working hard to fix.

You are painting a much rosier picture than reality. I will agree that schedules aren't that bad for pilots that live in base, but the overwhelming majority of our pilots commute, especially in DTW. For those pilots, these schedules are horrible. Most trips require a commute up the night before and commute home the morning after. That equals a lot of extra hotel rooms, and a lot of time lost at home. Trip drops and swaps are rarely approved. Staffing is always at rock-bottom levels. Has been for at least the last 3 years that I can remember.

5. The northwest RFP and our flying up for bid. Those of you who think that this airline is going to lose 124 jets in one week and everyone get furloughed are crazy. Granted there is a real possibility that we might lose some airplanes, maybe to mesaba who knows but if there is one thing I know about our management, it is that they aren't just going to let this company crumble. In our negotiations with NWA, we are looking for relief to be able to fly with other airlines so there is possiblity to put our eggs in more than one basket. Will we get 70 seat aircraft for NWA? Who knows, its a possiblity, but look for this place to fly for more than just the red tail in the future.

I agree with most of what you say here. As bad as this place is, it's still a relatively stable job. Attrition guarantees that you'll have lots of people hired below you on the seniority list really quickly. That equals job security. I wouldn't worry about a furlough here. Think about it like this: last October we lost 15 airplanes and were still understaffed and resumes hiring shortly after. As for the 70-seat flying, I think that ship has sailed with NWA, but it's always a possibility with a different airline partner. Unfortunately, our management will have a hard time getting any new business until they settle our contract. That is looking less and less likely to happen anytime soon.

I am not saying this is the greatest place in the world to work, but it is not what some people say it is and it is a place that will get you to a major quicker than some other airlines.
Hopefully this answered some questions for some people.

You're correct that Pinnacle isn't the absolute worst place to work, but it's certainly near the bottom of 121 airlines. The only reason to really come here is if you live in one of our domiciles. You can find an upgrade just as quick at several other airlines, and everywhere except Mesa has a better payscale and work rules. If you live (or want to live) in DTW, MSP, or MEM, then Pinnacle would probably be a good choice for you. If not, then you'll probably be very unhappy here and turn into a grumpy jerk like me.

 

[DenverCrashpad]

I have a suggestion: why don't we all bash Air Tahiti Nui instead? They only have two airplanes, fly to only two cities and speak French.

Having flown on Air Tah-sh*tty recently, I'd be happy to bash that airline. Terrible service, arm rests that don't go up, and no proffessional courtesy, 2 hours to turn a plane...

 

[flyboyike]

Having flown on Air Tah-sh*tty recently, I'd be happy to bash that airline. Terrible service, arm rests that don't go up, and no proffessional courtesy, 2 hours to turn a plane...

Ah, yes, and what about that idiotic color scheme? Like totally flower children-like.

http://p.airliners.net/photos/middle/0/3/4/1081430.jpg

 

[fowingman]

is msp a senior fo base, is that hard to get out of base, i currently work for a 121 carrier with a MUCH better contract and much higher pay, but would be doing it to get minneapolis, if i couldn't then there is no way i would go to pinnacle

 

[another cfii]

MSP FO base has been very unpredictable for the past year. As i've flown with FO that has sit reserve for couple months before able to hold MSP, but then i've flown with new FOs that were able to hold MSP right out of class. But in worst case scenario, i would say you should be able to hold MSP in less than half year.

Upgrade currently is starting to go junior again, as the lines are decent in the summer and nobody wants to sit reserve as a junior CA. But i bet once the snow hits the ground and the 17 days off lines start to disappear, upgrade will go back to normal.

If that's incorrect from any of our peeps, please chime in.

 

[Jeff775621]

what about dtw out of training? i have an interview thursday

 

[Mesabi Miner]

/Start Rant

Newsflash... All the Redtail's are miserable places to be. Attn prospective Pinnacle pilots - stay away. And it's not just Pinnacle. Mesaba and NWA as well. I'm a bitter Mesaba future furloughee and from someone who's been enjoying the Red-Tail $h!T sandwich for 6 years now, take it from me. Don't consider working for the NWA family. Don't support the NWA methodology. Don't support that way of running a business. Do yourself a favor and do some research on the history of Northwest Airlines labor relations and ask yourself if you're willing to work for a company that you won't respect.

/End Rant

MM

 

[Morris]

Any speculation on upgrade times of a new hire?
How many days off on the lines?
How many vacation days/year and do you have to wait 6 mo?
Can you trade trips online?
How many sick days/year?
Deadhead & Cancellation pay? Crew meals?
How is the medical/dental coverage?
Any good overnights? What kind of hotels do you stay in?
Tips on the interview?
Thanks. We all know that there's more to life than the pay and the contract details would be appreciated. I know it's not a great contract from all I've heard, but I'm really hoping to get back to MN. Appreciate the replys!

 

[another cfii]

First off,

DTW FO base is always been junior, so you should have no trouble holding it out of class.

Any speculation on upgrade times of a new hire?
How many days off on the lines?
How many vacation days/year and do you have to wait 6 mo?
Can you trade trips online?
How many sick days/year?
Deadhead & Cancellation pay? Crew meals?
How is the medical/dental coverage?
Any good overnights? What kind of hotels do you stay in?
Tips on the interview?
Thanks. We all know that there's more to life than the pay and the contract details would be appreciated. I know it's not a great contract from all I've heard, but I'm really hoping to get back to MN. Appreciate the replys!

1: Can't really project upgrade time right now. we have too many variables that would affect upgrade. Pro: Attrition, Con: RFP with NWA. But to be honest, with all the regionals out there, many are getting upgrade within 3-4 years, and we're right in the middle of the time frame. So only come here if you really want to live in our bases.

2: As answered before, the summer lines have always been good, anywhere avg from 13-15. One summer ago, it's only a good handful of lines that has more than 15 days off, but now, more than half of the lines has 15 days off, go figure. But once winter comes, it'll drop back down to 12 avg, i suspect.

3: Year 1(probation) and 2, you get a week vacation, 5 paid days, 2 non-paid days. We bid our vacation in Nov., so if your checkride date is after Nov., no vacation till next year, sucks!

4: No trade trips online. The only online function we have is crewtrac, which we can check our schedules, self-notify, check open time, stuff like that.

5: I couldn't remember what's the sick day accural, but i can tell you our policy. If you call in sick for the 1st time within 3 mo., no questions asked. 2nd time, doctor's note, 3rd time, talk with base mgr, 4th expect a carpet dance.

6: DH, CX are half pay. Crew meals, haha... nope. (Can't help it

7: Dental, Medical, i'm not too familiar, sorry.

8: Last summer we had some awesome overnight, BOS, PHL, JFK... This year, it's tough to say, sometimes we have a few better ones in NY, but most of the time, it's 18 hours in Des Moine, IA.. We're mostly staying at Holiday Inn.

9: It's been a few years, but do a search on here, and should be able to find most of what you need.

Cheers.

 

[Northern Lights]

Could someone remind me about the training details again. I know that they provide hotel and some pay during training, but wondering about the employee status thing. Do you still have to pass the checkride before being able to non-rev and all that?

Also -- does the ATP written have to be done for the interview, or before class?

I've already been burned by one red tail, so I'm not eager to jump to the other one, but would like to keep all options open.

Thanks

 

[copcar1988]

Could someone remind me about the training details again. I know that they provide hotel and some pay during training, but wondering about the employee status thing. Do you still have to pass the checkride before being able to non-rev and all that?

Also -- does the ATP written have to be done for the interview, or before class?

I've already been burned by one red tail, so I'm not eager to jump to the other one, but would like to keep all options open.

Thanks

You become an employee when you pass your checkride, seniority is based off of your class date and age, and the ATP written does have to be done for the interview. I have seen people get sent home on the interviews right away because they didn't have it.

 

[Northern Lights]

Thanks. I've been studying that dang Gleim ATP book on and off since 2002, but have never gotten around to actually taking the test.

 

[Spinn555]

People are funny-

Post- 'This airline is awful! It is associated with awful people, and it is the worst out there! I hate it here!'

Next post- 'I can't wait to work there. Are they hiring?'

It will take a long time to fix the QOL and pay problems, with thoughts like that.

 

[Lear70]

People are funny-

Post- 'This airline is awful! It is associated with awful people, and it is the worst out there! I hate it here!'

Next post- 'I can't wait to work there. Are they hiring?'

It will take a long time to fix the QOL and pay problems, with thoughts like that.

I was thinking the same thing.

As long as the airline can continue to staff at that kind of pay and QOL, there will be no meaingful reason for management to change how they do business.

Still trying to figure out why DTWPilot22 went off on a rant, the place isn't bottom of the barrel but there ARE a LOT better places to work...

 

[N590MA]

Mesabi miner is right, don't work for any red tail unless it is your only option. I've talked to several pinnacle guys both on my jumpseat and theirs, or on the dtw bus and have had only good expirences. I just think that when Nwa and our own incompetent management at XJ get done, every body at Nwa will turn their attention to Pinnacle. I hope that I am wrong on that account, nobody should have to go through this(6th year ex-captain probably furloughed in the fall). Like I said don't work here for any NWA carrier unless you have no other option. Xjer's are leaving for anywhere we can, Hopefully a fractional for me, but some are leaving for other regionals like Skywest and Mesa.

 

[wudalmstfly4fre]

I was told that there was an agreement between FEDEX and Pinnacle that FEDEX could only hire 2 a month from Pinnacle is this true?

 

[flyboyike]

I was told that there was an agreement between FEDEX and Pinnacle that FEDEX could only hire 2 a month from Pinnacle is this true?

Yeah, there is, but it's 2.46 a month from Pinnacle.

 

[CrownandCoke]

the thing that is the most amusing to me is the people that bash Pinnacle are mostly from other airlines (Mesa) and have nothing better to do with their time then drive in their Yugos and sit on the computer bashing other airlines. Pinnacle is fine. It's not a place where you are going to spend the rest of your airline life. Get in, get your time, and get out. Simple.

It's not a bad place to work, overall. The pay could use dramatic improvement, and they could strive to take better care of their employees. From what I hear, the health and dental insurance is some of the best in the industry.