Pilots Who Have Left Fractionals for Airlines or Corporate - Happier?

[johnsonrod]

Clearly the last few years at the fractionals have been very rough. I remember when getting a Netjets interview back in 2007/2008 was like winning the LOTTO... As I recall, even Flight Options was considered "the" place to be back in the early 2000s when it was experiencing great growth.

Obviously many pilots have been furloughed and forced to find greener pastures (or even give up aviation). All of the fractionals have laid off people. So, I thought it would be interesting to hear from pilots who transitioned out of the fractionals. For those who have departed the fractional industry, questions include:


- How does your current flying gig compare to your fractional job?

- Are you happier at your new gig? If so, why? If not, why not?

- Do you miss fractional flying and that lifestyle? What do you miss about it? What do you not miss?

- How does the flying equipment compare outside the fractional world - impressed/not impressed? Maybe your current aircraft can't compare to the CL300 you flew at Flexjet in terms of...

- If you could return to the fractional world (i.e., offered recall), would you return or not?



All of the threads on this forum have been sounding the same recently - people getting updates and speculating about aircraft orders. So, just trying to mix it up and get some comparisons between previous fractional jobs and the new reality (perhaps even better than the old gigs).

Appreciate any objective answers vs. the typical sarcasm and name calling...

PMs also welcome.

 

[Chairman]

Furloughed from CS now CA. Flew corporate for a pretty good gig 3 guys on a 560XL but had to always be within a hour of the airport. Pay was average but benefits lacking. My wife and I decided that the airline life style was best for us been at Virgin almost 2 years. To preference I have been both a airline guy and corporate/charter guy a few different times in my career.

Chairman

 

[FurloughedAgain]

So which do you prefer if money were no object? I was part 121 (commuter, LCC, and major) for about 10 years and have now been corporate (part 91) for 8. I'm not getting younger and pondering whether or not to try and make one last jump in the industry.

I don't mind taking a paycut provided there is another significant upside. There's more to life than money.

 

[Chairman]

So which do you prefer if money were no object? I was part 121 (commuter, LCC, and major) for about 10 years and have now been corporate (part 91) for 8. I'm not getting younger and pondering whether or not to try and make one last jump in the industry.

I don't mind taking a paycut provided there is another significant upside. There's more to life than money.

For Corporate it will really depend on the Gig. After 9/11 the airplane was sold and back to the airlines I went. Some treat you like a family member and professional and others just like hired help. My last gig was great home every night but we had to move away for the job and with no time off although many days of not working my wife was not to happy. Corporate is very much who you know for getting your foot in the door.
The fractional flying was ok but 7 days gone was a bit tough but airlining from home was nice as well as all the hotel and airline perks but with every day being close to a 14hr duty day I need 7 days off to just catch up on rest.

Was an in domicile regional captain making 100k+ and had it pretty good, but did not have faith in that business model long term and chose a legacy which put me on the street with in the first year.

I prefer the schedule and life style, jumpseat, travel bennies etc that the airlines offer. I now commute which I have not done in 10 years. And my commute is easy only 1 leg and over 15 non stop flights a day. If it was any any worse I am not sure I would still feel the way I do. But the more flexibility in life style is right for me right but with the looming threat of a merger or BK or shut down that can happen without warning. But I will take that risk..

Chairman

 

[AftCG182]

All of the fractionals have laid off people.

Avantair has not laid off one single pilot. A look at our quarterly statements will tell you that we're making it happen only by the skin of our teeth, but we're quite proud of the fact that we don't have anyone on the street.

Times are getting better for the fracs. I think that 2012-2014 will be a time of recovery, followed by a real flourishing of private travel in the years that follow.

Blue skys ahead for everyone!

 

[sshrae]

I am a nja refugee to corporate and feel very fortunate. I make more than I would as a nja captain and work around 10 days a month with few overnights and no on call. I realize that there are very few corporate jobs out there that are this good so I am certainly grateful. However, if we have learned anything from this industry we know it can change on a dime, I still have a seniority number at a major airline and nja, but hopefully will not need to go back when recalled.
A lot of uncertainty surrounds fractional flying at the moment, once you are in with a good corporate outfit you can't even compare the two.

 

[gret]

I am a nja refugee to corporate and feel very fortunate. I make more than I would as a nja captain and work around 10 days a month with few overnights and no on call. I realize that there are very few corporate jobs out there that are this good so I am certainly grateful. However, if we have learned anything from this industry we know it can change on a dime, I still have a seniority number at a major airline and nja, but hopefully will not need to go back when recalled.
A lot of uncertainty surrounds fractional flying at the moment, once you are in with a good corporate outfit you can't even compare the two.

Good for you!

I'm going to guess you're a real professional and deserve the position.

 

[sshrae]

Good for you!

I'm going to guess you're a real professional and deserve the position.

Got lucky, but good guess!

 

[gret]

Luck may put you in a position to succeed, but a superior work ethic creates success.

 

[sshrae]

Not sure what you are getting at with me but you are obviously tongue in cheek. Back to the point, I was lucky to get the job, and I have good work ethic or it would not have lasted this long. Good luck to you.

 

[johnsonrod]

Gret,

How about providing an objective response instead of the typical slamming and name calling? Your posts add no value to this discussion. Try not to waste our time.

 

[rajflyboy]

Luck may put you in a position to succeed, but a superior work ethic creates success.

Everyone knows that aviation jobs go in cycles. Luck is very important during a flying career. If you hit the cycles right you are very lucky. If you don't then you could be really hosed bad. Obviously having the right resume and the right friends will greatly help your chances.

 

[johnsonrod]

Hoping to avoid too much of the typical thread drift...

Any other former fractional pilots out there who want to share their perspectives?

 

[SharkBait]

It really depends on what you want. I came from a regional airline that never furloughed a pilot, then shortly after I left, the list was cut almost in half. To me, fractionals provide a predictable schedule in the long term, at the cost of short term (1-2 day) indecision. I know I have Christmas off this year.

I didn't care for bidding every month either. Many places have PBS now, so that could change that decision category.

How micro-managed do you want to feel? At 121, I felt as though I was not authorized to think. 91k I can think some on my own, but not too much. I suppose I would like to try my hand at 91.

The pressure on finding cheap hotels will never go away, but at least I have some say on what is unacceptable. I don't find too many irons that have been used for grilled cheese sandwiches.

Oops, sorry just saw the note on former fractional pilots--DISREGUARD!

 

[gret]

Gret,

How about providing an objective response instead of the typical slamming and name calling? Your posts add no value to this discussion. Try not to waste our time.

Don't understand.,,slamming and name calling?

I was complimenting the man. He indicated he was lucky and I pointed out that while luck helps, it does not trump a good work ethic which appears he possesses.

 

[jrmyl]

Don't understand.,,slamming and name calling?

I was complimenting the man. He indicated he was lucky and I pointed out that while luck helps, it does not trump a good work ethic which appears he possesses.

Haha. I was thinking the same thing. What name calling? That was clearly a compliment. I think some people are just spring loaded to assume everything on here is a slam.

Anyway, I am furloughed NJA. I am currently working the Air Japan gig in Japan. I hate to say it but I am very conflicted if I will go back when offered the recall. I am flying excellent equipment with good people and make a wonderful salary. I get almost as many days off a month as I did at NJ. The only drawback is having to do the 18 days in a row. So it really does come down to what your own preferences are. You have to make up your own mind in the end.

Good luck.

 

[DUATS]

Gret - I thought it was a compliment too - and appropriate. Luck might get you in the door, but professionalism, skill, and a good attitude will keep you there.

Former Flex guy myself, now flying as 737 captain for a 121 supplemental - and I would JUMP at a chance to go back. Old job: I knew my schedule for 28-56 days out, could use PBS to get almost everything i wanted, stayed in nice hotels, never felt pressured to fly a broken airplane, and was confident that the company would back me up if I needed something. New job: Schedule for the month usually comes out the 29th, and it only includes days of work, not flights. Everything is 5 on, 5 off so no matter how senior you get you're working two weekends a month. No benefits to speak of (401k but no match, health insurance but they pay only a pittance of it, no vacation time - ever!). Never sure if the company is making money and doing well, or holding on by a shoestring. But as I say, even the current job beats working for a living. I'm not going to make 100K anytime soon, but I have 15 days off a month and very few overnights. Being captain after 2 years is great, too. But seeing the Challengers and Gulfstreams pulling into the FBO still makes me drool.

I did see EJM is looking for 2 CL30 guys in Tampa..........

 

[johnsonrod]

Don't understand.,,slamming and name calling?

I was complimenting the man. He indicated he was lucky and I pointed out that while luck helps, it does not trump a good work ethic which appears he possesses.

Fine - I am just trying to get an interesting thread going... I'd like to hear what furloughed frax pilots think about the other side of the coin - either airline or corporate - and whether they would consider returning one day based on their latest experiences. Just another attempt to understand our aviation business through other peoples' eyes.

 

[rajflyboy]

Don't understand.,,slamming and name calling?

I was complimenting the man. He indicated he was lucky and I pointed out that while luck helps, it does not trump a good work ethic which appears he possesses.

Gret complimenting a man

Thats a first

 

[Headwind]

When moving from fractional to corporate the first big difference was: I got to use the dresser in the hotel because I was there a few days. With fractional you never take anything from your bag unless you're going to wear it.

 

[guido411]

- How does your current flying gig compare to your fractional job?

- Are you happier at your new gig? If so, why? If not, why not?

- Do you miss fractional flying and that lifestyle? What do you miss about it? What do you not miss?

- How does the flying equipment compare outside the fractional world - impressed/not impressed? Maybe your current aircraft can't compare to the CL300 you flew at Flexjet in terms of...

- If you could return to the fractional world (i.e., offered recall), would you return or not?

-Other than flying airplanes it doesn't compare. I know the people I fly every time and I have to answer to them. If something goes poorly on a trip you don't have dispatch, scheduling, logistics, etc to blame. Can't just go to the hotel and hope their next trip goes better.

-Yes I'm happier. Better pay, better schedule (less days and overnights), not the constant management/pilot struggles, better food, better hotels, no constant threat of layoffs, less drama/rumors, no commuting.

-I miss a couple of the guys I used to fly with. I miss the different airports we used to go to.

-Equipment is in better shape since it gets less use and the same pilots fly it all the time.

-I left before any furloughs so I would never see a recall but if I was offered one I would turn it down.

 

[Xcorporate]

Left a great corporate job for the stability of NJA. My currency ran out, got furloughed, sent out over 100 resumes, 1 interview, still unemployed. I'd have no choice but to accept a recall, but I doubt I'll make it through training at this point. My career flying is over as far as I can tell.....

In hindsight, the corporate gig was just a way better life style. NJA was fun but those days are gone forever. Resentment will prevent me from ever enjoying NJA again.....

 

[BentOver]

I'm 100% certain you'll make it through training (if we ever were to get recalled).. After a few sims and once you get back into "training mode" it'll be like riding a back..

As for the resentment, yeah we'll have that... I'm certain the NJA bashing will be prevalent in the cockpit and in the FBO's...I know every meal I eat will be hot and on a plate in the FBO. The plane will be attended to when I'm done. Etc Etc...

 

[rajflyboy]

Left a great corporate job for the stability of NJA. My currency ran out, got furloughed, sent out over 100 resumes, 1 interview, still unemployed. I'd have no choice but to accept a recall, but I doubt I'll make it through training at this point. My career flying is over as far as I can tell.....

In hindsight, the corporate gig was just a way better life style. NJA was fun but those days are gone forever. Resentment will prevent me from ever enjoying NJA again.....

It may take a few years but I really do believe you will be back on property and you will have no problem with the training.

Keep the Faith.

Try to jump on this airline retirements hiring boom for now. You CAN do it!

 

[gret]

Most of the posts so far are encouraging and it is good to hear that people have landed at what appears to be a better place. Hang in there for those that haven't found what they're looking for.

I’ve been lucky and only have had three places to call home since I graduated from the university. My average tenure was 12.5 years and while I enjoyed each position, I never wanted to return to a former job…it would never be the same and “newness” (i.e. people, challenges, lifestyle, etc) appeals to some people.

Times are still very tough, and may get worse this year, but that new job is out there some place if you keep looking. There is always a need for good people.

 

[unclepetey]

I was furloughed by Flexjet in 2009, now flying the 777 for Emirates and I'm very happy here.

 

[The Av1ator]

Left CA for a corporate gig. Better pay, better benefits. Rarely a long duty day. My schedule is not fixed but do have hard days off every month and do not get abused. Like not flying the airlines four times a month and dont miss 7 days on the road. Would not go back to CA if I had the chance. Very fortunate to have found such a good position.

 

[Ticker]

When moving from fractional to corporate the first big difference was: I got to use the dresser in the hotel because I was there a few days. With fractional you never take anything from your bag unless you're going to wear it.

Man! That is sooo true.

I left a Frac of my own accord in 2007 for a job with a Major. They guys I fly with now always ask the same question. My answer is always the same. No matter where you go, it's a crap shoot. You roll the dice an take your chance. My jump worked out. I am much happier. I was miserable before I left. Much, much happier now.

I did get furloughed from the 121 carrier I'm with and picked up a corporate gig (thank goodness for all the types I racked up at the frac). Then, as soon as I get back from recurrent for the new job, the airplane goes up for sale. Then, my carrier started recalling a month and a half later. Lucky roll of the dice.

If I had been with NJA, I likely would never have left. Good pay and about as secure a future as one can hope for in any flying job. That said, I'm still very junior...barely off reserve, making about the same money but any day I need off, I can get with little effort. I either do a little swapping or trading or call the CP. At the frac, there was one time that I asked to come out 2 days late so I could make my 20th high school reunion (yes, I actually wanted to go)...DENIED. I'm talking 2-3 months notice. I didn't dare call out sick after making the formal/honest request. Do the right thing and you get what you deserve.

Not as much variety in the flying but in the end, our time in this career is finite and my mission is to make the most money I can while getting as much time off as I can so I can spend quality time with my family.

 

[chriskcmo]

Left a frac back in October. Went to the FAA. Much better quality of life, better pay after the first year, awesome bennies, about as stable a job as you'll ever find. No regrets and no desire to go back. I still get to fly a little and most importantly, I get to see my kids grow up.

 

[deej]

Furloughed from NJA. Could not find a job flying. Worked at 2 non-flying jobs and ended up as an accountant/financial analyst with a small company.