Pilots wearing backpacks??? lets get campy?

[SkyBoy1981]

It depends on where you work. When I was a corporate pilot, there were times that I carried a backpack if it was a trip with just one short overnight. I knew my passengers though...and I knew the folks that I worked with. They were all confident in my abilities, and couldn't care less about a backpack. As far as anyone else, I really didn't care whether they liked it or not since they weren't contributing to my paycheck. At the airlines, its different...I would never go to work with a backpack. I don't know the people that I'm flying, and they do not know me. I already look like a high school kid (can't really help it), but if I make it worse by acting like one or by carrying around a backpack that isn't going to give them much confidence in myself or my airline. Thats just my opinion though.

 

[FN FAL]

And yes, FN FAL is gay.

Hah hah hah...just because I wear festoons on my roll along, it's no reason to call me names!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Ok, my response:

You are comparing apples to oranges. These are two totally different things, looked on two completely different ways by society. Eyebrow rings and lip rings are a far sight more 'progressive' than backpacks. That's like sentencing someone to the death penalty for jaywalking. You have to use some common sense. Read my previous post about wife-beaters and cutoffs. I realize it's not a gallup poll, but in relation to this topic, I asked my neighbor what she thought of a pilot wearing a backpack, (this is the same one I mentioned in a previous post), and here exact words were, "What?? I don't care about that." I realize it's not a poll or anything, but it's an example of customers believe.

Now I offer this:

1. Customers don't care. They go whereever the cheapest ticket is. They have proven this time and time again with travelocity, expedia, priceline, etc. No brand loyalty. They don't care who's flying them as long as they can pay $39 bucks a leg.

2. Employer. If they cared, why did my FOM say nothing about it? Why does my current FOM say nothing about it? Why do a lot of the FOM's out there say nothing?

3. Fellow pilots. Once again, as in my previous post, this message board is the first time I've EVER seen or heard anything negative about wearing a backpack. No DO, CP, check airman, captain, or first officer has EVER said ANYTHING to me about it. EVER. My argument doesn't need to change here.

Is it common sense? The eyebrow ring is certianly more attention getting. That is why I used it, to emphasize the point. Consider how you feel about a fellow pilot wearing an eyebrow ring, is the how the anti backpackers feel about you wearing a backpack. Especially when worn over both shoulders. Is that how you wear it CaptnVegetto? With both shoulder straps over your shoulderboards? Or just casually over one shoulder? Kinda laid back, laisser faire?

Therefore, if you want it to be ok to wear a backpack then it is also ok to wear a eyebrow stud. Where does one draw the line? Who gets to decide what is ok and what is not. Obviously you want to decide that backpacks are ok. Your FOM doesn't say you CAN use backpacks. It doesn't say you CAN"T wear eyebrow studs.

1. We all want the most for the cheapest price. Pax want the cheapest price but they's rather have a jet than a prop airplane. I think they'd rather have a conservative professional image than not. And does your neighbors (lack of) concern determine whether you care? IOW, as a professional pilot, since my neighbor doesn't care and my passengers don't care...guess what... I don't care!

2. Your FOM doesn't say much about tongue studs and eyebrow rings. Do you need it to? Are you getting the point? Do you wear a tie cause your FOM says so, or because it is a uniform standard?

3. And at my airline they don't say much either. That doesn't mean it is ok. I saw a pilot with a goatee the other day. WTFO? Beards and goatee on pilots work in Europe. But we are not in Europe. No one has said much to you at work, (do you need them too?) but yet you are getting a loud and clear message right here right now.


This backpack issue is a fine line and I'd rather debate this, to get to promote individual understanding of the uniform, than whether or not it is professional as pilots to wear tongue studs.

Just keep in mind that when one wears a pilot uniform there is a level of responsibility in that one pilot can speak for thousands. All we have is our image. Your "don't judge a book by its cover" arguement doesn't work because all our passengers and customers have is our image and behavior. They don't watch us fly and don't have access to our flying records. Sarcasm on: One passenger to the other. "Did you see our pilot? He looks like a beach bum in shorts and sandals when he sat down in the cockpit." Other passengers replies "yes, but looking at his 10 year training history he has never failed a checkride!" Sarcasm off.

When I functioned as a Captain, I realized my effectiveness with my crew and passengers was greatly impacted by my appearance and behavior. And when I had a FO that had attention getting variations in his appearance and behavior, I didn't say anything but I also didn't give him as much credit in his abilities as a pilot. And as a Captain, I don't have to. I am not going to wait until a WX event to see if this guy can cut it.... IOW, if he can't wear the uniform right and stop swearing for five minutes how do I know he holds himself to a high standard when it comes to flying? I don't, I have to wait two or three legs to see howthis guy flies and that is not fair to me or him. When I was an FO, I knew alot about the Captain I was with by his image and behavior.....and how effective I was going to be for him/her.

Looks like we are going round and 'round and coming to a agree-to-disagree.

Different schools of thought.......old school-new school?

Besides someone will tell us to get a room soon. I'll bet FN FAL will be there

 

[PCL_128]

First of all, Rez is far from being a "crusty old guy." Believe it or not, some of us that care about a professional image are not all that close to retirement age. You don't have to an old geezer to care about a professional image.

Second, I think it all comes down to one simple question: "If I wear this, will a significant portion of the flying public think it looks unusual or unprofessional for an airline pilot?" If the answer is yes, then don't frickin' wear it! You and I as pilots know that wearing a backpack is no indication of how well someone can fly, but a large portion of the public won't see it that way. Can you honestly say that a large portion of the flying public wouldn't find it odd or unprofessional for an airline pilot to be wearing a backpack? Be honest now.

 

[AeroDork]

I'm a corporate pilot and the President of the company carries a backpack instead of a briefcase. He's the most unorganized, airheaded, inconsiderate, forgetful person I know. It doesn't instill much conficence when he shows up with a half open backpack with junk falling out. I'd like to know what other business executives think when he shows up to meet with them and he's pulling junk out of his goofy backpack.

 

[filejw]

I'm headed to BOM in a few days and will take orders for leather backpacks.They are nice size not gaudy and big enough for a two day trip.Black only with black zipper and clasps.$80.Will look nice on a female or maybe a male pilot with an earing. Should fit any airlines FOM requirements.All contingent on the place hasn't floated away.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Is it common sense? The eyebrow ring is certianly more attention getting. That is why I used it, to emphasize the point. Consider how you feel about a fellow pilot wearing an eyebrow ring, is the how the anti backpackers feel about you wearing a backpack. Especially when worn over both shoulders. Is that how you wear it CaptnVegetto? With both shoulder straps over your shoulderboards? Or just casually over one shoulder? Kinda laid back, laisser faire?

Depends on where I am. Besides, I now don't wear shoulder boards.

Therefore, if you want it to be ok to wear a backpack then it is also ok to wear a eyebrow stud. Where does one draw the line? Who gets to decide what is ok and what is not. Obviously you want to decide that backpacks are ok. Your FOM doesn't say you CAN use backpacks. It doesn't say you CAN"T wear eyebrow studs.

Actually, it did. There was a paragraph in it on visible piercings. Nothing on backpacks. Males were not supposed to have any visible piercings of any kind. Not even ears. Of course, that did not stop one captain that I knew of. He had an earring, and a mullet for that matter. Now THAT guy was a poster boy for unprofessionalism. He was in the top 5% of the seniority list too, although he was NOT very highly thought of.

1. We all want the most for the cheapest price. Pax want the cheapest price but they's rather have a jet than a prop airplane. I think they'd rather have a conservative professional image than not. And does your neighbors (lack of) concern determine whether you care? IOW, as a professional pilot, since my neighbor doesn't care and my passengers don't care...guess what... I don't care!

Not about backpacks, no. More to come

2. Your FOM doesn't say much about tongue studs and eyebrow rings. Do you need it to? Are you getting the point? Do you wear a tie cause your FOM says so, or because it is a uniform standard?

See my above post about the jewelry. I wear a tie b/c my FOM says so. I've already said if I could wear a golf shirt and khakis, I would.

3. And at my airline they don't say much either. That doesn't mean it is ok. I saw a pilot with a goatee the other day. WTFO? Beards and goatee on pilots work in Europe. But we are not in Europe. No one has said much to you at work, (do you need them too?) but yet you are getting a loud and clear message right here right now.

I will never have a beard and goatee because I believe it is a safety concern. Supposedly you are not able to get a perfect seal on your O2 mask if you have one. I'll never grow one anyway because I can't stand the itching. A 'loud and clear message'? Sure from you and about 4 or 5 other people on here, but what about all the others arguing against you? It's pretty even. Not enough to sway me. I still haven't seen a reason to convince me in all our debating.

This backpack issue is a fine line and I'd rather debate this, to get to promote individual understanding of the uniform, than whether or not it is professional as pilots to wear tongue studs.

Met several flight attendants with tounge studs. I believe it was against their FOM, though I'm not sure. I asked, they said no, as long as it wasn't visible.

Just keep in mind that when one wears a pilot uniform there is a level of responsibility in that one pilot can speak for thousands. All we have is our image. Your "don't judge a book by its cover" arguement doesn't work because all our passengers and customers have is our image and behavior. They don't watch us fly and don't have access to our flying records. Sarcasm on: One passenger to the other. "Did you see our pilot? He looks like a beach bum in shorts and sandals when he sat down in the cockpit." Other passengers replies "yes, but looking at his 10 year training history he has never failed a checkride!" Sarcasm off.

When I functioned as a Captain, I realized my effectiveness with my crew and passengers was greatly impacted by my appearance and behavior. And when I had a FO that had attention getting variations in his appearance and behavior, I didn't say anything but I also didn't give him as much credit in his abilities as a pilot. And as a Captain, I don't have to. I am not going to wait until a V1 cut to see if this guy can cut it.... IOW, if he can't wear the uniform right and stop swearing for five minutes how do I know he holds himself to a high standard when it comes to flying? I don't, I have to wait two ro three legs and that is not fair to me or him. When I was an FO, I knew alot about the Captain I was with by his image and behavior.....and how effective I was going to be for him/her.

Looks like we are going round and 'round and coming to a agree-to-disagree.

Different schools of thought.......old school-new school?

Guess you're right. I see what you are referring to as far as weirdo piercings, but I just see that and a backpack as two completely different things. A backpack, to me, is just not a big deal. A nose ring is. It's like what I was saying earlier. Is a hydrogen bomb the same as a stick of dynamite? Well, they're both bombs, but one is waaaay different than the other.

Besides someone will tell us to get a room soon. I'll bet FN FAL will be there

Cheers

 

[ATRCAPT]

Oh, I got your Animal House reference. It was a good one too. I also got you sarcasm. Evidently you didn't get mine....Chief. BTW, don't mess with me, you know I'm training to be a cage fighter.

Wow . . . .you're kind of an ignoramus, aren't ya? Part of my post was sarcasm, apparently you didn't get it. Apparently, you never saw "Animal House", or didn't see it enough times to get the reference.

Regardless, Chief, if you aren't willing to repsect the uniform, then don't wear it. Go fly freight . . . it's a big world out there . . . . something for everyone. HAve a nice life . . . and without that pledge pin.

 

[acaTerry]

I just ask these questions:

1. Why did we not have this kind of problem 10 yrs ago? Could it be something to do with the fact that low-time pilots, especially very young ones, were not flying for the airlines?

2. Why will you babies exhaust yourselves arguing to justify your noncompliance with things that are time tested, proven practices?

3. How hard can it be to comply? You guys are like a kid who has to wear shoes the first time, squirming and whining about everything being so hard to do...cut your hair, wear your uniform, etc.

I am not the old, washed up guy some dingaling accused me of early. I am only 37, and no, my logbook did not stop at 5000 hrs. I am a former regional pilot who now flies for a frac b/c I got tired of the dead-end regional airline job. Dead end b/c of idiots who insist on aiming for the bottom, the minimum, and settling for being pidgeon droppings.
Until you guys grow up, follow the rules, and hold up a professional image, you will always be $22/hr pilots.
As for your John Lennon "you don't know me" replies, and the apple to oranges, and other cliche rebuttals, save it. I don't want to hear it. You guys are making your beds, prepare to sleep in them.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

I just ask these questions:

1. Why did we not have this kind of problem 10 yrs ago? Could it be something to do with the fact that low-time pilots, especially very young ones, were not flying for the airlines?

2. Why will you babies exhaust yourselves arguing to justify your noncompliance with things that are time tested, proven practices?

3. How hard can it be to comply? You guys are like a kid who has to wear shoes the first time, squirming and whining about everything being so hard to do...cut your hair, wear your uniform, etc.

I am not the old, washed up guy some dingaling accused me of early. I am only 37, and no, my logbook did not stop at 5000 hrs. I am a former regional pilot who now flies for a frac b/c I got tired of the dead-end regional airline job. Dead end b/c of idiots who insist on aiming for the bottom, the minimum, and settling for being pidgeon droppings.
Until you guys grow up, follow the rules, and hold up a professional image, you will always be $22/hr pilots.
As for your John Lennon "you don't know me" replies, and the apple to oranges, and other cliche rebuttals, save it. I don't want to hear it. You guys are making your beds, prepare to sleep in them.

The problem Terry, and I do agree with you there are a few, again A FEW young guys/gals out there who think they are entitled to everything and blow off the image because they arent gettin the quick upgrade and the big bucks, but back to the problem, isnt the youngins that are flying for 22 bucks an hour, its the old dawgs that allowed those payscales to be negotiated, debated, voted and ratified.

I see a lot (and this isnt aimed directly or just at you Terry) references about the younger pilots "taking" these low paying jobs and thus racing to the bottom. I think a lot of us need to take a hard look in the mirror and contemplate on where those low payscales came from. Which came first (to use another cliche, the chicken or the egg) the low time bratt that will pay 120K to fly for 18K a year, or the 18K a year?

I find it laughable that some think these new guys should pass up these lowpaying jobs to force the industry to raise wages, right! If a regional came knocking on your door with 1000TT and offered you a job flying a transport catergory airplane as opposed to being a CFI or flying freight in a 310 I'm sure most of us would have turned it down for the "greater good"

There is a steep decline in our pay, QOL, bennies, etc. But no one group is to blame or shoulders more or less blame. Until we all pull together as a pilot group, I say it again, as a GROUP, not some discombobulated congealed ameoba of elitist groups, we wont be able to stop the slide.

Is not wearing backpacks and adhering to our own FOM/GOM/whatverbook by 100% the answer? Partly, but threads like these where both ends of the spectrum try to one up each other by auggering each other into the ground doesnt further the cause. So what if young guys/gals with lower time are getting regional jet jobs, you older guys should be welcoming them with open arms and TEACHING them the ways. Younglings need to take a big bite of humble pie and then go back for seconds, THEN be willing to listen and LEARN, you dont have to argue every point, but on the same coin stand up and be heard when you have something important to add/say/contribute/etc. Old farts need the young farts just as much as the young farts need the old farts.
Again chicken or the egg, did the young cockiness come first or did the distane for low time pilots come first?

This isnt the first time lowtimers have been coming into the industry and I am willing to bet quite a few of the high timers on this board started out with less time than MOST guys are getting hired on with now. This also isnt the first time there has been animosity towards a group of people either. Just cause it aint the first time doesnt mean it CANT be the last!

Pull it together people, we are talking about backpacks here, does it look funky, sure it does, but no more funky than EAT AT BANNAN JOES CRAB AND BAR SHACK stickers on beat to he11 flight cases, or beer bellies that would make Rosanne Barr blush, etc. Its all about perspective and if all we can find to fight about amongst ourselves is choice of junk containers, the slide is only gonna get very slippery!