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Pilots on Food Stamps: Sez Michael Moore

UndauntedFlyer

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The plane landed and I stepped into the cockpit. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else."Great," I said. "Just what I want -- you coming to work sick, flying me up in the air and asking to borrow the barf bag from my seatback pocket."He then showed me his pay stub. He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker."I have a second job!" the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop. You know, maybe it's just me, but the two occupations whose workers shouldn't be humpin' a second job are brain surgeons and airline pilots. Call me crazy.
Read More at (The Huffington Post).
 

jmreii

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The plane landed and I stepped into the cockpit. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else."Great," I said. "Just what I want -- you coming to work sick, flying me up in the air and asking to borrow the barf bag from my seatback pocket."He then showed me his pay stub. He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker."I have a second job!" the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop. You know, maybe it's just me, but the two occupations whose workers shouldn't be humpin' a second job are brain surgeons and airline pilots. Call me crazy.

Read More at (The Huffington Post).



A sharp person steers around a poor paying job, and if that person doesn't, its own them. Educate yourself or acquire some sort of skills that are in demand and you will be ahead of the game.
 

UndauntedFlyer

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This condidtion of low pay and working conditions is no ones fault except the failure of a pilot's union to organize the Regional Carrier's pilots to a level of strength for negotiations.

In a few years this will change because of the arrival of the long awaited pilot shortage. Who will be learning to fly now when this current condition of employment is at the “End of the Rainbow” after spending $200K to learn to fly? Answer: Very Few. Flight schools are closeing everywhere and soon the university/college programs will have to close too. I hate to see it happen but it must.

And with the new proposed requirements for all F/O's have an ATP, that will only act even more to exasperate the situation.

The great pilot shortage is coming and the new pay scale will have to go up-up-up; if only a strong union can get the job done. BTW: Don't count on the wimps at ALPA. You'll need the Teamsters....
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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What do you want ALPA to do that it has not......

During the Colgan hearings, ALPA's safety rep testified at the NTSB hearing, the ALPA President testified to Congress and ALPA reps did over 40 media interviews including major networks....

There is probably more.... what would that be?
 

UndauntedFlyer

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What do you want ALPA to do that it has not......

During the Colgan hearings, ALPA's safety rep testified at the NTSB hearing, the ALPA President testified to Congress and ALPA reps did over 40 media interviews including major networks....

There is probably more.... what would that be?

If you read the facts as brought to everyone’s attention by Michael Moore, we can see the result of ALPA's loss of control. We are all looking at the results of their current organizing efforts; and the fact that the ALPA membership is declining in the Regionals and at the National, Global level. That is due to ALPA's attempt to be all things to all people. That can not work and it has not worked. Such a philosophy only results in division of the troops. ALPA has been divided and conquered. It's time for something new: Like unity. Maybe ALPA can save themselves and the profession; but I doubt it. If anything happens, the coming pilot shortage in 10-years will save the profession.

Good luck!
 
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Rez O. Lewshun

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OK, you've described the bleeding gash.... but you have not decribed how to stop the bleeding, stitch it up and get it healed...



If you read the facts as brought to everyone’s attention by Michael Moore, we can see the result of ALPA's loss of control.


How has Moore (indirectly) shown ALPA's loss of control.



We are all looking at the results of their current organizing efforts; and the fact that the ALPA membership is declining in the Regionals and at the National, Global level.

ALPA just got Airtran, Colgan and they are ready for ATI and NAA. I actually agree though.. I think ALPA needs some internal unity.... how though is the question. Your thoughts?


That is due to ALPA's attempt to be all things to all people. That can not work and it has not worked.

What does this mean? It suggest that some Air Line Pilots are simply to be shunned?

Such a philosophy only results in division of the troops. ALPA has been divided and conquered. It's time for something new: Like unity. Maybe ALPA can save themselves and the profession; but I doubt it. If anything happens, the coming pilot shortage in 10-years will save the profession.

Good luck!


Now, it appears you have no faith in ALPA.... did you ever?

What is the historical line on low first year pilot pay?

How does it compare to other professions with who pay thier dues with large school loans...
 

UndauntedFlyer

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The problem can be reduced by doing things the old way. Voting weighted toward Captains. Then fight for Captains pay.... Stay focused on one objective: Pay! That's easy to understand. Hit the Easy Button.....
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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The problem can be reduced by doing things the old way. Voting weighted toward Captains. Then fight for Captains pay.... Stay focused on one objective: Pay! That's easy to understand. Hit the Easy Button.....


How is voting weighted towards captains when each pilots gets a vote and roll call voting via LEC reps allows one vote per pilot. One of the LECs at my airline has the FO Rep with the most votes?

Again, I agree... but how do we fix it....

The problem is FO's make crappy wages for the first 10-15 years of an airline career and when they make it to capt, they politic thier best to get as much as they can before they retire.... can you blame them?
 

UndauntedFlyer

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At one time ALPA was a Captain's union. Captains had all the votes. The F/O's were along for the ride and it was a good one. Now the F/O's have power to take back what they think they want. The result is no focus on direction except division. Consessions are made for protecting the bottom half. If and when the F/O's become captains there is nothing left, little pay and no retirement. That brings no accomplishment and dissatisfaction with the union. ALPA is then voted out.

This can not be changed at this point. It's too late. Only a future pilot shortange along with a realization of what has happened can bring about change.

Best of luck.......You've got a big job to save this career before the whole industry is just like Michael Moore sees us all. Don't get sick....
 

Flyin Tony

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. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else

I know a guy that called in 21 days last year at a larger 135 gig and nothing happen to him. I feel for you guys that just sucks
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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At one time ALPA was a Captain's union. Captains had all the votes. The F/O's were along for the ride and it was a good one.

Do you have examples of a good ride?



Now the F/O's have power to take back what they think they want. The result is no focus on direction except division. Consessions are made for protecting the bottom half. If and when the F/O's become captains there is nothing left, little pay and no retirement. That brings no accomplishment and dissatisfaction with the union. ALPA is then voted out.

Is that ALPA's fault?

This can not be changed at this point. It's too late. Only a future pilot shortange along with a realization of what has happened can bring about change.

Best of luck.......You've got a big job to save this career before the whole industry is just like Michael Moore sees us all. Don't get sick....

So you've washed your hands clean and put the burden of the profession on me, or whoever will take the burden?

Why is the burden not for you?
 

pilotyip

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still a great career if you like flying airplanes, and if that is the case you don't need all those student loans to pay off.
 

UndauntedFlyer

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Why is the burden not for you?

I wish you the best results for your efforts. The problem is too deep for most anyone to solve at this point. Scope was the real killer....

As for me, I've passed the tourch. Please do what you can to save the profession. You've got the job.
 

Rez O. Lewshun

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I wish you the best results for your efforts. The problem is too deep for most anyone to solve at this point. Scope was the real killer....

As for me, I've passed the tourch. Please do what you can to save the profession. You've got the job.


It only works when all of us are on board. If you've given up, then don't expect anyone else to carry the load.....
 

UndauntedFlyer

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It only works when all of us are on board. If you've given up, then don't expect anyone else to carry the load.....

It only works if all those who are working are on board. I was retired just in time. So, yes, it's your job and all those who are working.

Focus and Unity, that's the key.......but I think everyone know that...
 

UndauntedFlyer

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I am sure you workeed to protect the profession over the years....

Well I did put it all on the line to walk the picket line. I have my Battle Star ALPA pin, what's it worth?
 

414Flyer

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The problem can be reduced by doing things the old way. Voting weighted toward Captains. Then fight for Captains pay.... Stay focused on one objective: Pay! That's easy to understand. Hit the Easy Button.....

But that is part of the problem, those "Captains" have so often been willing to sell out the younger ones, in exchange for a few more bucks. Maybe if those Captains had not been so willing to let Mainline start feeder alter ego operations, in exchange for whatever gift Management offered, think of how much different it would be. There has been this whole underpaid underclass of pilots created now by those decisions, who are on this neverending carousels of feeder contracts between different mainlines.

Look at how many Captains would rather furlough the junior, rather than have less hours but that keeps more pilots employed. Or how many of them have no problem picking up open time, with younger furloughees out there. If some 58 year old pilot cant lose a few hours a month to help a junior pilot pay rent and eat food, that senior pilot is a real POS.

Pilots are partly to blame for this mess too unfortunately. There is a lot of "ME ME ME" going on, and brotherhood is fine until a group of pilots see a dollar laying in the street, then its UFC time.

And how many pilots have just told new commercial pilots to just take any job for experience and not care about the pay. That sets a horrible example to follow and instills a mindset to place work and getting new experience, over quality of life in the present. Other fields do not have people that put up with such crap, in order to have ones "Dream".

And the next time someone says "Oh but I have to be a pilot, its my dream and there is not anything else in the world that I can do". Well, then you are pretty stupid and have no business flying an airplane then anyways. And its those same "dreamy" types that think that they will not care what they make as a pilot, that it will just be so awesome and dreamy, until they have a 5am preflight in Fargo in December. But hey, they have already taken the job then. Management has its cost unit seat filler for barista pay.

I do agree with Michael Moore that the state of the airlines and pay is reprehensible, its why I have never gone to the airlines. I was making more this summer per month flying a C90 than most RJ Captains do, so those good paying jobs are out there to be found. But if pay is going to change for up and coming pilots, attitudes will have to change in pilots too.
 
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pilotyip

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In the end everyone looks out for their own best interests, it is human nature.
 
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