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Pilots hope and wait for Sully's, Colgan accident and unions to enhance their careers

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Sounds good... HOW do we get congress to ask us "what do we need to do to fix this," ??? Do we wait? Do we act?

I think the whole point of my post was answering this question. I'll dumb it down: Get the constituents pissed off so that they flood their representatives and the FAA with concern. How? Go read the post again.


The same old schtick? When has increased pilot participation been the same ol song and dance. It has never been. That is the problem. As a group we accept the status quo. The professional pilot culture is apathy and cynicism.

No, the same old schtick refers to your one-man campaign on FI calling for more pilot participation. I will agree that it has never been tried. I also don't think that it ever will be tried, despite your best efforts to convince us all of the merit. The question I'm trying to get you to consider is this: given the current level of pilot participation and lobbying dollars, how can we best apply that to enact real reform?

I threw out an idea about trying to educate the public with the goal of creating a groundswell. I don't think it's been tried, and I think in today's internet society, we have to adapt and evolve. I was hoping you'd comment on that, instead of going back to your usual playbook. Does it hurt much banging your head up against that wall?
 
I think the whole point of my post was answering this question.

I disagree. I think you just came up with a witty way to fall back on apathy.


I'll dumb it down: Get the constituents pissed off so that they flood their representatives and the FAA with concern. How? Go read the post again.

I'll ask again.. HOW do you get the constituents pissed off? You've got to provide details.

Also what is the lastest with AIG.... have we seen real reform?



No, the same old schtick refers to your one-man campaign on FI calling for more pilot participation. I will agree that it has never been tried.
So there is an idea that you agree has never been tired. Active participation. We will never know what kind of repsonse we will get if pilots don't give it a shot.

Or said this way: if pilots become activist would it help?

I also don't think that it ever will be tried, despite your best efforts to convince us all of the merit. The question I'm trying to get you to consider is this: given the current level of pilot participation and lobbying dollars, how can we best apply that to enact real reform?

I threw out an idea about trying to educate the public with the goal of creating a groundswell. I don't think it's been tried, and I think in today's internet society, we have to adapt and evolve. I was hoping you'd comment on that, instead of going back to your usual playbook.

Did the Indians wait for the British to fix things for them?

Did the Blacks wait for the Southerners to end segregation?


Does it hurt much banging your head up against that wall?

Not sure if you participate or not. By this thread, I would say no, but message boards are a poor way to understand others.....

Waiting for a groundswell (as you suggest) or grassroots movement is passive. Pro-activity or activism is required. Union leaders and empty guns... only until the membership provides the ammo will we be effective....

Also, consider what I have suggested...

It takes minutes to sign up for ones union PAC...
6 hours a year to attend two LEC meeting.
4 hours a year to attend two picketing events.
5 hours a month to participate in low level committee work.


This simply isn't much to ask for.... again our culture amongst our ranks allows it....

Am I tired of banging my head? Nope.... I am not going to take my hands off the controls, slide my seat back and watch our career graveyard spiral....

And it may do that... but I'll be banging my head as it does....
 
Unions could close their doors. Stop taking money from workers and stop destroying business and productivity.


Consider watching the NTSB public hearing on the Colgan accident.... you'll get an idea of what management has in mind for workers...
 
What do you suggest unions do differently? And where does pilot apathy come into play?

Here's one:

ALPA stops representing commuter airlines that don't meet certain safety criteria. Not just FAA mins, but an increased amount defined by ALPA.

This would be a very pubilc move in light of the current events.

The list of non represented airlines would be made very public. People may stop flying said "less than safe" airlines.

Hopefully many of these airlines would then go out of business and the older, more established airlines (like it used to be) would have to grow again to pick up the slack. And along with this growth, so would the better paying pilot jobs.

We would have then gotten rid of less than safe airlines.

Created a way to grow the Major airlines again.

Create more better paying pilot jobs for higher experienced pilots, many of which may have been at these $hitty Co. which helps offset the pain of a lot of job losses at these airlines.

In the long run, the health of our profession will be on it's way to being restored, as well as providing a safer transportation system.

If we can create more, higher paying jobs, then ALPA will more than make up for the due's they will loose by dumping scumbag operators.
 
Nothing will happen until this problem becomes an obvious pattern. Until then you may see additional training in the form extra training in the sim for stall recovery, videos or biannual checks for both captains and fo's in an attempt to passify those who are calling for action.

In the end it will all be just lip service to silence the squeaky wheel, unfortunately.
 
ALPA starts handpicking who they represent.....and they lose valuable dues, not going to happen.


ALPA just needs to get the message out about what is really happening in the airline industry. I see all the news about how the Colgan pilots killed 50 people because they lied about past failures, slept in the crew room ,had very little experience in certain conditions, did not get trained on such and such....all while the NTSB has YET to release its final determination. Nothing is being done to protect these pilots..NOTHING. It is awful quiet from DC...except for the lynch mob known as congress and the press.

Someone on here once said that ALPA was there to protect the intergrity of the pilots....seems than ran when the heat got turned up. Now, snort some blow or show up to work half in the bag, they got your back.
 
Unions could close their doors. Stop taking money from workers and stop destroying business and productivity.

yes, all those pesky rules like not having less than 12 days off when I'm already away from home for 3 nights a week. Or negotiating/maintaining jumpseat agreements. I would much rather just have the company pay me whatever they think is fair. And if I refuse a flight for safety reasons, they can just fire me. After all, that plane won't make money sitting on the ground, will it?

Or that stupid aeromedical department I just used last month with an important health/FAA medical question. I should have just called up the Feds!

If we would just quit being so greedy, like wanting health care for the first 6 months of employment, the airlines would make a lot more money and pay us more out of the goodness of their hearts.
 

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