Pilots expected to picket Warren Buffett-owned NetJets

[FamilyGuy]

Our mid and large cabin planes generate plenty of revenue compared to their airline brethren. I don't doubt the company having to adjust the business model (away from the lower revenue aircraft) once they pay us a wage more in line with the going rate, but that is their job. Same as when any other business cost goes up. If competition keeps you from adjusting prices to cover the cost, you shrink your marginal product lines and shift toward the more productive assets which have less competition. A company which says they can only survive by paying well below the going rate for one of their costs and refuses to adjust the business model to recognize the current reality is unlikely to be around for the long haul. I sincerely hope that's not us.

It sounds like you are advocating that NetJets get out of the smaller cabin aircraft. Is that accurate?

NJA is not a well diversified company, so which product lines would you suggest management shrink or eliminate? The small cabin fleet since they generate the smallest profits?

 

[Diesel]

Nice deflection.

I?m still waiting for you to provide your apples to apples comparison. Which Delta fleet do you think NJ should be compared to and what is your rationale for that choice?

I'm still waiting for you to understand self worth.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's deflection.

 

[Diesel]

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K

Exactly because they understand their self worth.

People like familyguy will never get it. He will never understand what it takes to be a pilot but because he's able to type on a keyboard and hide behind a screen name on a pilot website he's an authority.

It really is laughable. I like the banter but in the end his thoughts are worthless. Well unless you're at SBA then he can pontificate all he wants.

 

[gunfyter]

I made it simple for you. SWA instead of Delta

Southwest F/O pay
Southwest Airlines Airline Pilot (First Officer) Salaries

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sou...er.jobTitleExact=Airline+Pilot+(First+Officer)

Base Salary

$192,718
$105k - $272k
▶.......

Now you know longer have to ask the question of which aircraft...

As you can see NJ f/o's make less than half of that. So since this company flies smaller planes than SW ... perhaps everyone, not just the pilots should be making 49% of SouthWest.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I got the $106k from you.

No captain at Delta makes $106K

Nice try. The $106k number came from the link you originally provided, and I questioned as being obviously wrong.

 

[gunfyter]

Nice try. The $106k number came from the link you originally provided, and I questioned as being obviously wrong.

And I said the pilot salaries are wrong. I have no idea if the other salaries are right.

But I do know our pilots make about half of what airlines are getting now. I just think if thats the standard it should apply to you as well

 

[FamilyGuy]

I'm still waiting for you to understand self worth.

Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean it's deflection.

I understand self worth quite well.

I learned a long time ago that self worth is not connected to how much money you make.

Case in point - JH made a lot of money but wasn't worth much.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I made it simple for you. SWA instead of Delta

Southwest F/O pay
Southwest Airlines Airline Pilot (First Officer) Salaries

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Sou...er.jobTitleExact=Airline+Pilot+(First+Officer)

Base Salary

$192,718
$105k - $272k
▶.......

Now you know longer have to ask the question of which aircraft...

As you can see NJ f/o's make less than half of that. So since this company flies smaller planes than SW ... perhaps everyone, not just the pilots should be making 49% of SouthWest.

The link you provided didn't show any salaries. Glassdoor was also the link you provided earlier for Delta salaries that we both agreed was wrong.

I looked at the SWA FO payscale here - http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/southwest_airlines

and found that their hourly rate is $57 for first year FOs, which is less than Delta, and works out to roughly the same as NJ.

Granted, their payscale increases rapidly after the first year, so some work does need to be done there.

 

[Diesel]

I understand self worth quite well.

I learned a long time ago that self worth is not connected to how much money you make.

Case in point - JH made a lot of money but wasn't worth much.

Actually that isn't case in point. He might have believed he was worth that much and made sure he was paid that. Whether you think he should have been paid that is irrelevant. WB sure thought he was worth it.

That's what people tell themselves when they have to accept less than their counterparts to justify a job.

Have you looked at what a delta employee makes doing the same job as you?

 

[fischman]

Who is negotiating? I?m merely offering rebuttals to points made here by others and asking some questions to try and clarify what people are saying.

I?m all in favor of keeping the negotiating in the negotiating room, but doesn?t that apply equally to both sides?

I think a lot of progress is being made with AJ and Bill at the helm and we should all let the two teams of negotiators hammer out a deal that works for both sides.

Uh-huh... How is STW doing?

 

[gunfyter]

The link you provided didn't show any salaries. Glassdoor was also the link you provided earlier for Delta salaries that we both agreed was wrong.

I looked at the SWA FO payscale here - http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/major-national-lcc/southwest_airlines

and found that their hourly rate is $57 for first year FOs, which is less than Delta, and works out to roughly the same as NJ.

Granted, their payscale increases rapidly after the first year, so some work does need to be done there.

Shows them right here for first officer.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...9QLqkEJKCpWlAhG4A&sig2=bQAmu3JUCtP9bAiSI5hlyQ

But I have the whole Delta and SWA contracts on pdf. What you see on airline pilot central is just pay for flight time. Not including things like TAFB... time away from base.

I know what my friends at Delta and SWA make ... its about double NJA.

 

[pmaestrales]

There is zero incentive for Warren to pay pilots more. Furthermore, what if he decided to decrease salaries? Whats to stop him??? Increased levels of whining? Your basically just limo drivers as far as he's concerned, maybe less.

 

[gunfyter]

There is zero incentive for Warren to pay pilots more. Furthermore, what if he decided to decrease salaries? Whats to stop him??? Increased levels of whining? Your basically just limo drivers as far as he's concerned, maybe less.

And how is this different than Delta and SWA pilots?

 

[pmaestrales]

And how is this different than Delta and SWA pilots?

The difference is public sentiment.

Where is the pressure being applied to this large entity? Nowhere, other than the Union.

NOBODY cares about NJ pilots protesting their salaries of nearly six figures. Delta and SWA pilots are flying the masses. Many people are unemployed or underemployed, nobody will be sympathetic to somebody making $90k and their attention span is not long enough to understand the investment required to become a pilot. Ultimately, the masses feel the same about their pilots as the NJ "owners" do about theirs, and they both want the best. They certainly don't want to hear about the private jet driver's of the super-rich either.

Without the public's sympathy or attention, the pickets are completely meaningless and an embarrassment.

 

[993_Pilot]

The difference is public sentiment.

Where is the pressure being applied to this large entity? Nowhere, other than the Union.

NOBODY cares about NJ pilots protesting their salaries of nearly six figures. Delta and SWA pilots are flying the masses. Many people are unemployed or underemployed, nobody will be sympathetic to somebody making $90k and their attention span is not long enough to understand the investment required to become a pilot. Ultimately, the masses feel the same about their pilots as the NJ "owners" do about theirs, and they both want the best. They certainly don't want to hear about the private jet driver's of the super-rich either.

Without the public's sympathy or attention, the pickets are completely meaningless and an embarrassment.

Wow, you couldn't really possibly be that naive can you? You think picketing only works when you are seeking less that the average person in America?... or have it worse than the un- or under-employed? You think Warren Buffet likes seeing that he pays his pilots less than Walmart in the media? The Netjets pilots may not be living on skid row, but that certainly doesn't mean others will be unsympathetic to their situation. I would be willing to bet that WB is already fielding calls from owners telling him to pay the pilots at a level commensurate with their counterparts at the major airlines and to charge the owners accordingly. The 1/10th of 1%ers don't want to be flying with second rate pilots, and that is exactly what will start happening if WB loses the ability to retain or attract experienced crews because he is penny wise and pound foolish.