Pilots: Corporate and Airline

[banned username 2]

Archer, is that YOU?!?!?!?!

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Well i fly for a small corporate outfit. Nothing special. Anyways, they hate when I wear ties and all that crap so I dont unless we have a big customer on board.

As for personality. 90% of the people I travel with always take me to dinner and the bars later and we have a good time. They wouldn't hire any tight @$$'s with no personality. We constinently joke around and never really take anything serious. As for when I'm flying. Its pretty typical crap. Make sure everyone knows how to get out, operate seatbelts etc.... I let them drink as long as they dont grab a headset!!! I sometimes goto the meetings with them and basically its a fun enviornment.
Like its been said a billion times before. I have never flown 121 but i can definatly believe there is a larger amount of interaction with passangers, especially due to the fact its usually the same people time and time again.

 

[100LL... Again!]

My 2 cents:

I think that the culture of the operation has the most to do with things like safety and style.

If you went to a regional that had a cowboy culture, you may drift somewhat that way, if you have any of it in you.

If you go to a regional with a real by-the-book style, over time you will probably slide that way.

Same with corporate flight departments. Some are very by-the-book and safety oriented. Some are an accident watining to happen.

If you are a one or two-crew department without formal structure, then individual personalities will probably determine the culture.

Airline flying has a better safety record due primarily to the culture, procedures, and checking standards. Not because they have 'better' pilots.

You will eventually become like those you keep company with.

 

[PacoPollo]

Airlines= Fly for Free(or deep discounts) worldwide..
Corporate= you dont get neither.

 

[crash-proof]

Archer, is that YOU?!?!?!?!

Now that's funny!!!

 

[NJA Capt]

Airlines= Fly for Free(or deep discounts) worldwide..
Corporate= you dont get neither.

I don't think so, Tim

NetJets=Free Coach or First class tickets via frequent flyer status (Space POSITIVE)
=Free hotel accommodations via hotel point programs.

Airline=Jumpseat or non-rev space AVAILABLE
=Hotel....out of pocket.

I'll not even compare crew food vs. terminal food.

 

[eagleatr]

I think it boils down more to a personal prefrence. There are advantages and disadvanteges to both.

Generally, airlines are set schedules, anywhere from a month or more in advance. Corporate can be on call all the time, or some of them have schedules.

Depending on the airline, you could fly a variety of aircraft, all over the world. Most corporate flight departments only have one or two aircraft types, and may not leave CONUS.

Airlines, you can fly for free or at a reduced rate (for personnal travel), and yes it is space available. (With my airline, I went to Hawaii for $80 first class!) If your corporate, you buy your own ticket, but your going to get there when you want.

The people you fly with at the airlines can go either way. You get some that are real cowboys, some that are very by the book, and the majority are in between. From my friends in corporate, it goes the same way.

As for going out, ordinarily the whole crew gets together for dinner or lunch or something on the trips. But, everybody is different and does their own thing.

I've never worked corporate, but I've thought about it. I enjoy the airlines because I get to fly with a lot of different people, and go all over the country (and the world).

It all boils down to a personal choice of what you want to do and who will hire you.

EagleATR

 

[Capthuff]

Corporate - Fractional - Charter
In my opinion, of course, is the best
Ask anyone in a frax - thay haven't paid for a vacation since thay started.
Marriott points(I have over 400,000) - Airline miles and the such
I have enough airline miles to go to Austraila,
I eat good food, go to and stay in cool places

I am extremely fortunate to be able to fly the type of operations that I do and go the places I go. (every island - from Freeport down to South America and Central America too)

One of the most important things for me to feel fullfilled at my job is to be able to provide exceptional customer service and have fun doing it.
That is why I fly.
And that is why I choose to fly charter/corporate.

Cappy

Plus how often do airline pilots get to fly an empty A/C
(cool factor)

 

[KingAirKiddo]

I've had the advantage of being able to do both. I started as a corporate pilot post-flight instructing, went to a regional for 5 months (2-1/2 months online before being unceremoniously furloughed), and am now back with the corporate outfit debating whether or not I'm going to take recall with the airline when/if it is offered.

I'd have to say that overall the fringe benefits associated with corporate aviation are far superior to airline benefits, the exception being travel benefits. I have a generous meal allowance with the corporate outfit (purchase meals with company American Express), have a company paid rental car on all overnights, and have time on trips to get out and see the local sights. I average 14 days off a month, but unfortunately have no set schedule (on call 24/7, but typically know trip details at least a day or two in advance). The pay is superior to probationary first year pay at the airline, but airline pay would have been about the same or slightly more had I made it to the second year with the (who knows now that my airline will probably be forced to accept a concessionary TA). I am able to request days off with the corporate job, but run the risk of missing trips if I do (I'm paid by the day). The passenger contact is much better in the corporate world, and is a necessary function of a corporate pilot. You have to be a "personable" person in order to do well as a corporate pilot.

I guess overall it comes down to personal preference. I have to say that I'm more an "airline person" because I like the structure, the set schedule, travel benefits, flying with a variety of people, etc. but it's no longer a black and white distinction for me. My time at the airline definitely was an eye opener for me and showed me that the grass is not necessarily greener over there. Anyway, hope that answers your questions.

 

[banned username 2]

Airlines= Fly for Free(or deep discounts) worldwide..
Corporate= you dont get neither.

Thats strange, I haven't paid for a vacation in over 6 years... but yet have taken a vacation every year... airfare, hotel and rental car all free...

I have never worked for an airline...

 

[banned username 2]

Plus how often do airline pilots get to fly an empty A/C
(cool factor)

Hehehehe...

Nothing better than pulling up to the podunk airport restaurant ramp in a Falcon 900EX and have two 30 something guys in shorts and tee shirts jump out and have a cheeseburger, get back in and do some "pattern work"...

Gotta love that! You definately get some strange looks from the locals!

 

[kelbill]

From my short 3 year stint here at Southwest Airlines, I can make two generalizations. 1. Company culture can affect pilot attitudes and personalities. 2. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. What those two statements mean is that most pilots will take on at least some of the company culture; if its fun loving, they too will become more outgoing and easy going. If it is full of resentment towards mgt or other work groups or other airlines, then most will take on some of that ill will as well. But, it also depends on the individual, ie, statement 2 above. Some guys I fly with would be awesome in any flying job. Others act like they hate life and hate flying. So find out about a company's culture first, primarily their flight department of course, and see if you fit in.

 

[Speedtree]

Well said by many above.

It probably depends on the company you work for more than anything.

I've done both and here are some observations.

I would say the fractionals have the most benefit of aquiring airline miles. I flew for a small company and we rarely flew the airlines so I don't have many FF miles. However don't forget that as an airline employee your eligible family members get travel benefits also. My parents have come down to see my newborn boy a bunch of times. 5 plus round trips for the price of one average fare ticket (now that UAL charges us for write-your-own tickets).

Quality of life can be very good at the right corporate job. My company paid for all meals, entertainment, cars etc. on the road. Now that I work for a regional no more steak for lunch.

I left the corporate job to fly more, a set schedule, travel benefits, more pay, and a new, varied flight experience flying new a/c with new pilots. I gave up what I mentioned above along with a pager, three weeks of vacation per year minimum, and an overall great job.

I wish I could do both.


Bottom line= if you get the right corporate job your life will be good from the beginning. At the airlines seniority is everything and it requires time and work to get to the good life.

I would go back if the time and job were right.

 

[enigma]

Originally posted by FlyChicaga
what does each side of the aviation career field look for in terms of flying styles,

Chicago, I've flown for pure Part 91 corporate operators, Part135 scheduled carriers, and Part121 carriers flying t-props and jets. I would say flying style is uniformly rigid in part 121 (135 scheduled ops are no longer) but varies according to the department manager for the part 91 departments. If you're asking about the styles of flying that the differing operators do, that's way too broad of a question. Basically, you will get far more variety in corporate ops, but ever trip is different even for us airline guys. You will have more opportunity to play as a corporate pilot because you will get the occasional empty leg, something that us airline pilots almost never get.

professional personality,

I don't really see any difference in professional personality. The vast majority of pilots I've flown with in my career have been conscientious, safety oriented, and care about their passengers.

crewmember interactions, and so on?

In corporate flying, you know your fellow crewmember better than his/her spouse. If he is cool, life is good. If he's a jerk, life stinks. In airline flying, you get to change every month, so you get to meet more people and develop more relationships. If your Captain is a jerk, knowing that you only have to put up with him for the rest of the month makes life much nicer.

Why would someone say a pilot is better suited for the airlines than corporate aviation, and vice versa?

The only thing that makes a difference, in my opinion, is whether you can stand to be unionized or not. Except for Skywest (and others that don't come immediately to mind) airlines are unionized. Some personality types don't like working in a seniority system as opposed to a merit system. I have worked in both, and prefer the seniority system. I prefer seniority because the merit system isn't really about merit, it is based upon who kisses up the best. If the personal, political aspect could be taken out of the nonunion environment, I would prefer a merit based system. On the flipside, the union environment gives an individual pilot two opponents, management and the union hierarchy; but in the union environment a pilot can participate in how he is treated, by becoming involved in the union process.

What types of skills and traits does each look for?

The skills and traits that help one succeed as a corporate pilot are the same as the skills and traits necessary for success in the airline world. Both worlds require that one be good with people, knowledgable, dedicated, etc. The different careers may use the skills in different area, but those skills are still necessary in both worlds. For example, a corporate pilot may need to deal with diverse personalities among his pax, and not his crew; where the airline pilot never really deals with his pax, but may have to mediate between his flight attendents twice a day.

I hear so often about the differences between pilots in corporate and the airlines. Are these differences apparent before the pilot chooses a career path? Or are the differences a result of the pilot choosing a particular path?

Once again, I doubt that there is really any real difference, but if there is, it would most likely be developed after one gains a job. I say that because of us take the first job that comes along, or we are influenced by "conventional wisdom". If all pilot jobs paid the same, and you could choose which career path without compromising your earning potential or career expectations, the data might answer the question, but as long as most of us will take a job, any job, in order to be flying; I will postulate that the difference in style and trait is only influenced by blind chance.

regards,
enigma