Pilot vs. Airplane

[no1pilot2000]

As pilots learn to fly more sophisticated aircraft, especially the newer commercial and business jets , are pilots losing their basic flying skills? On one hand, there's Capt. Sullenberger who safely landed his Airbus in the Hudson River. On the other hand, there's the two Northwest Airlines pilot who cared more about "whatever" they were doing, but not flying the plane that went hundreds of miles off course. Are some airline pilots and other pilots who flying business jets with similar technology becoming more automated than the airplanes they fly?

 

[J.Otto]

go tell mom to mix some kool-aid.

 

[Ben Franklin]

As pilots learn to fly more sophisticated aircraft, especially the newer commercial and business jets , are pilots losing their basic flying skills? On one hand, there's Capt. Sullenberger who safely landed his Airbus in the Hudson River. On the other hand, there's the two Northwest Airlines pilot who cared more about "whatever" they were doing, but not flying the plane that went hundreds of miles off course. Are some airline pilots and other pilots who flying business jets with similar technology becoming more automated than the airplanes they fly?

This sounds like that chick's inner monologue from "sex and the city".

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

 

[instructordude]

As pilots learn to fly more sophisticated aircraft, especially the newer commercial and business jets , are pilots losing their basic flying skills? On one hand, there's Capt. Sullenberger who safely landed his Airbus in the Hudson River. On the other hand, there's the two Northwest Airlines pilot who cared more about "whatever" they were doing, but not flying the plane that went hundreds of miles off course. Are some airline pilots and other pilots who flying business jets with similar technology becoming more automated than the airplanes they fly?

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO. What was your question again???:smash:

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO. What was your question again???:smash:

Did Yeager fly big iron? Not sure that he did.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

This sounds like that chick's inner monologue from "sex and the city".

Sincerely,

B. Franklin

That's damn funny.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO.

Why is that? Suppose the same flock of geese were struck in Phoenix with no place to land and there were no survivors. Would he have been just another shmoe that crashed an airplane?

Statistically there will eventually be an incident where all the variables line up in your favor and this was that time. No extrordinary piloting skill was involved. Had any one of the variables been different, the outcome would likely have been tragic, but those were not under Sully's control.

 

[rumrunner300]

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO. What was your question again???:smash:

Don't get carried away. Sully's greatest achievement on that flight was to recognize the futility (and danger) of trying for an airport. Making the call to put an aircraft into the river took balls, big'uns, considering the track record of water ditchings over the years.

That being said, the technology of airbus played a larger role in the successful outcome of the actual landing than true "stick and rudder" flying. Pretty nice when one can hold the stick full aft and have the airplane ensure sufficient AOA/Airspeed to maintain control about all three axis.

Technology greatly aided the brilliant decision making ability of an experienced pilot.

You can get off of your knees and simply shake the man's hand and say "good call" if you see him.

-Runner

 

[Junkflyer]

Yes I'm pretty sure its easy to deadstick any transport category jet into a water a landing with no casualties.
Sully did a great job no question, all you little penis pilots should get off his case.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

What are we talking about?

 

[Minimaniac]

As pilots learn to fly more sophisticated aircraft, especially the newer commercial and business jets , are pilots losing their basic flying skills? On one hand, there's Capt. Sullenberger who safely landed his Airbus in the Hudson River. On the other hand, there's the two Northwest Airlines pilot who cared more about "whatever" they were doing, but not flying the plane that went hundreds of miles off course. Are some airline pilots and other pilots who flying business jets with similar technology becoming more automated than the airplanes they fly?

Depends on what you define as basic flying skills. Even the most automated aircraft need to be hand flown at some point. Maybe not every leg, but we all get hand flying in at some point and do it well. As for instrument skills, the scan techniques change from steam gauges to glass, but you still are scanning for the same information, just in different locations. Airline pilots transition back and forth between old and new often enough, and adapt easily. The first few sim rides have a learnig curve, but leaning a new scan is no different than learning a new flow pattern.

The big issue that automation introduces is free time. A highly automated airplane reduces workloads for the most part, leaving you with less time required to command the aircraft. Some pilots make good use of this extra time and fill their time with expanding their situational awareness. Most pilots on automated aircraft have an enhanced sense of where they are and where they are going compared to basic aircraft pilots. It is not a stab at skill...we all have the skill. But automated glass aircraft offer things like maps that are always available and updated, with future course plotted. An older aircraft may require that the pilot be flipping through maps constantly to maintain a level of awareness equal to that of the pilot flying the automated aircraft. Now, some pilots of automated aircraft do not make good use of the reduced flying workload, and use lap tops or do nothing and eventually doze off. There is still plenty to do to keep you awake if you care enough on an automated airplane.

 

[dougdrvr]

Did Yeager fly big iron? Not sure that he did.

Did I leave the iron on?

 

[Sailpilot]

Why is that? Suppose the same flock of geese were struck in Phoenix with no place to land and there were no survivors. Would he have been just another shmoe that crashed an airplane?

Statistically there will eventually be an incident where all the variables line up in your favor and this was that time. No extrordinary piloting skill was involved. Had any one of the variables been different, the outcome would likely have been tragic, but those were not under Sully's control.

I saw your interview on the subject:

http://www.hulu.com/watch/99686/saturday-night-live-update-thursday-captain-roger#s-p1-sr-i5

 

[Tweaker]

"are pilots losing their basic flying skills?
I submit to you that some simply never had much to begin with. This percentage is increasing rapidly. Specifically, the chillrens who have kept the seat warm adjacent to myself and my former co-workers in Part 121 ops.

I'm talking 201 hours total time, 25 hours ME, just about no actual instrument. These are real numbers and not uncommon when hiring was still rampant.

Some are not all bad, all are not much good. Some learn quickly, many get washed out in initial.

My favorite was a kid who tells me on day 2 that he is on "high minimums," after on day 1 going down to 100 AGL (me as PF) on a messy day of hard IFR. He does not know call outs, in fact I thought he got stage fright as PNF. Total silence over there.

He flew otay in VFR until he looks out the window, then stops descending, gets slow; really just goes into lost in space over there.

I called him "Snoop Dawg" because he likes to "get high" when it is time to land.

The worst I heard 2nd hand was a fat young pilette who was about to be released on her own the next day at a freight operator I worked at. She climbed into a solid cloud layer, and made a loud, surprised/frightened sound, as I imagine she would make when her large labia emits a queef.

When the route familiarization guy seated next to her asks WTF? She replies, "I have never been in clouds before!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

At least she had no one in back. Yes, she is CAPT on a shiny new RJ last I heard.


Oh ya, another goodun'. Night VMC, calm winds, big fat runway, no one out but the crusty Capt. and his boy blunder, who is just wrasslin' with the yoke, tap dancin' on the rudders (at least he remembered em some will say), and jockeying the throttles like a poor kid foolin' with the stuffed animal crane arcade machine.

Boy Blunder makes the now expected smash onto the poor runway surface, CA assumes the A/C. CA retracts his hand from the power levers and asks, "what the ********************? Why are the throttles all wet?" (sweat dripping from them)

BB - "Wot? I'm workin' over here!" (I like to imagine it was said in a New Joisey accent and he was as orange as a carrot!)

Before you ask: Yes, I am Gawd's gift to aviation, and I was born that way.:erm:

 

[J.Otto]

/\ lmao

 

[chignutsak]

...and jockeying the throttles like a poor kid foolin' with the stuffed animal crane arcade machine...

Hilarious...nice comparison

 

[CRJ puppy]

Don't get carried away. Sully's greatest achievement on that flight was to recognize the futility (and danger) of trying for an airport. Making the call to put an aircraft into the river took balls, big'uns, considering the track record of water ditchings over the years.

That being said, the technology of airbus played a larger role in the successful outcome of the actual landing than true "stick and rudder" flying. Pretty nice when one can hold the stick full aft and have the airplane ensure sufficient AOA/Airspeed to maintain control about all three axis.

Technology greatly aided the brilliant decision making ability of an experienced pilot.

You can get off of your knees and simply shake the man's hand and say "good call" if you see him.

-Runner

Exactly.

Agreed.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Don't discount flying ability too much. With all that was going on, he had to pick a spot on the river, clear obstacles and traffic, and manage the energy of the aircraft to get that beautiful flare with no power. Anything else would have ended in disaster.

Sure, the control laws could have prevented a stall but there is no way software can produce a near-zero rate touch down, off-airport, with no power.

 

[jester757]

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO. What was your question again???:smash:

I think his question was "Did you loose some weight?"

 

[CessnaFan]

HA! Nonsense! Chuck would have taxied up to the pier and helped everyone disembark without getting wet.

Only Chuck Norris could have done a better job than Chuck Yeager...

I wouldn't describe what Sully did as "Basic Flying Skills". The guy is one level above Chuck Yeager IMO. What was your question again???:smash: