Pilot to A&P

[Off_Strip]

I've been thinking about going back to school and getting an A&P and Avionics certificate. Actually, more along the lines of an Associate of Aviation Tech degree. I was wondering if there is anyone out there who has done it or was thinking about doing it?

I know there are pilot/A&P people out there. I just haven't met many. I've always had an interest in doing it and most of my flight experience is on overseas contract work or in remote areas with just pilot. FO, and engineer. When stuff goes wrong everyone helps, so I've been fortunate enough to get some hands on experience with changing FCU's, transmitters, brake assemblyees, inspections, etc....

Seems to me that there is more potential for employment as well. Compared to flying anyway. However, it's no easy task and it's exspensive. I would appreciate any info or advice on how to approach this and recomended schools. Thank you for any help.

 

[CFICANFLY]

Hey "Off"...

I'm a single/multi asel/amel instrument rated pilot with my cfi. I chose to get my a&p right after finishing my pilot ratings. I basically had two reasons, one: to make me a better pilot by understanding the systems & the aircraft better; and two: to make me more marketable as a pilot.

I now have my mechanic certificate with the airframe rating, & am about half-way through the training for my powerplant rating. It has its plusses & it's minuses. The plusses are:

- I do understand the aircraft & it's systems way better than before.

- It has "opened the door" on some job interviews that I've had.

The minuses:

- I've had a job interview that was supposed to be for a flight instructor position end with "you know, I really don't need a flight instructor right now, but I do need a mechanic."

- Probably not a concern for you considering your total time, but for me & anyone else in my position considering this at this early point in their career; is the lack of flight time that I have had while I have dedicated myself to going to a&p school. Where I live, the part-time flying opportunities are few, & my low total time has hurt me in some interviews.

When I get finished, which is only a matter of months from now, I hope to have landed a flight instructing job that involves doing a moderate amount of maintenance to supplement the paycheck. I do enjoy "turning a wrench" & especially like being actively involved in the maintenance of the aircraft that I fly. It's just that I enjoy flying more, & it's finding that balance that is the trick.

I just read your post again, & let me add a few things. First of all it is pretty long. Anywhere from about 18 months for some schools, to 21 months for mine. If you go the experience route, it's 18 months per rating or 30 months combined for both. The price is across the board as well. However, the school that I go to is about the cheapest that I have found. It is part of a public school system, so it's only around $5000. It's called the Lorenzo Walker Institute of Technology in Naples, FL LWIT . That link is for the powerplant program, there is another for the airframe. Yes, it's run by the public schools, but the average age is probably in the mid-thirties. Also, if you're thinking about earning a degree, there are several options for that. You can attend a degree program, or earn your a&p anyway you want & finish the degree by taking just a few classes at anyone of several colleges/universities. I hope this all helps!

'canfly

 

[bobbysamd]

A&P

I think getting your mechanic certificates is a great idea for several reasons. One, it is something else to put on your pilot resume. Two, it can keep you employed around airplanes when pilots are not being hired. Three, you receive knowledge of systems, which will help you at any level or position in aviation. Fourth, it provides another opportunity to make contacts and/or get your foot in the door. I'm sure there are plenty more reasons to get the certificates.

An A&P would be a great addition to your bag of tricks. Good luck with your training.

 

[Off_Strip]

Thank you both for the responses.

CFICANFLY,

I understand where you're coming from. I've heard that having your A&P can be the Kiss-of-death sometimes when applying for a flying position. Not unlike what you mentioned in the interview you had. They really wanted an A&P and you would have ended up turning wrenches more than propellers. Not what you want...

As for me though I'm looking more at getting out of the flying part of aviation and concentrating more on the maintenance side of things. I would concentrate more on maintenance only positions. I will take a look at the school you mentioned. Good luck with your career and thanks for the informative relpy.

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

I'll chime in quickly...

I was a CFI before I got my A&P. I've worked as both a CFI and an A&P. I've done flight school maintenance and I have worked for classy, high dollar repair stations.

Frankly, I just don't care about wrenching all that much. The thing is, changing the oil on my Toyota (or the Dodge, or the White) is just like changing it on an airplane. Do I really care if Big Law Firm X's Lear can get through it's phase in time for the next planned trip--not really. But I find that I do care if a friend of mine has some small thng that needs fixed before he can take his family on a vacation.

You will have no problem finding work as an A&P. None whatsoever. At the end of the day, however, you will have cuts on your hands and possibly some grease in your hair. Not that that in and of itself is a bad thing, but is that what makes you happy? If I were maintaining airplanes for someone whose cause I "believed in," I'd be happier than all get out. Same thing for flying though, I'm not particularly money driven (good thing, 'cause I'd have gone nowhere!).

The definite bonuses to the A&P gig are that you will be home every night, and you can probably count on driving to work and home at the same time every single day (generally). For some people, that is one of the best things about the job. for some of us, that was the worst. You also won't have to worry about billing hours--there's very little down time to the mechanic's life.

I am by no means an old hand (heck, I'm not old, and my hands have barely matured enough to hold a beer), but I'll tell you that the full time A&P gig is not for me. It is way too stable for my tastes, and I don't care about turning wrenches for someone else. Playing with the old truck in the avatar, I'm happier than a hippie at woodstock. But you'll have NO problem finding good, stable mechanic work with your airplane experience and an A&P.

Hope this helps, there are many people here MUCH more experienced than I.

Dan

 

[Off_Strip]

Dan

Sounds to me that I'm looking for what you have and you're looking for what I have. Stability is something I haven't had throughout my career. It's been 14 years since I started to fly for a living and although it has been rewarding and exciting. It has not come without some sacrifices and consequences. Some of these would include:

- Divorce
- Politics & Stabilty of Forgien countries
- Living & Health conditions of third-world countries
- 6 to 8 months of the year on the road.
- Contract lengths from 6 weeks to 4 months


I've worked for the same company for the past 12 years flying all over the world on some pretty interesting contracts. Most of my flight experience is Twin Otter work on floats, skis, and tundra gear. With the exception of Australia, I have flown on 6 of the 7 continetants and I have visited more than 40 different countries. However, at this point I am looking for something more stable. Drivng home every night sounds good to me right about now.

I also love flying and some may say try and get an airline type job for more stablltiy. I have considered trying this and I still might, but I have never really been the airline type and I'm probably not the type of pilot the airlines are looking for regardless.

Anyway, the bottom line for me is that although I am greatful and fortunate for my experiences, I am ready for a change. Being an A&P will allow me to stay in the field and have some more stability. Hope this makes sense.....

 

[betelnuts]

Strip,

I spent 15 years being an A&P before I started to fly. Worked everything from CE-150's to L-1011's. My experience is that an A&P is a liability for domestic flying. As a bush pilot I should think it would be a great asset. It's harder to find an experienced mechanic than it is a pilot. As for systems knowledge, if I can't fix it from the cockpit I don't want to know how it works.

The pundits claim the mechanic shortage will be far more severe than any pilot shortage. Thats great if you are looking for a career change from flying. If you are looking to get out of flying I would recommend going to avionics school. Computerized everything is the wave of the future and its cleaner work.

P.S. I'd rather be doing bush type work myself.

 

[CFICANFLY]

Off_Strip-

I didn't get the impression in your original post that you wanted out of flying. In that case, you'll have no problem finding employment & enjoying a fairly routine schedule as a mechanic. I sure would enjoy taking your spot (with out the divorce & all...)! I am glad that I took the time to get the mechanic ratings, as I said I do enjoy it, but I'm itching to burn somebody else's avgas. Good luck to you!

'canfly

 

[avbug]

Owning a mechanic certificate is an asset in working jobs, such as ag flying back country flying, etc. It's not an asset, and is sometimes a liability, when doing clean hands jobs, such as flying corporate, etc.

A few clean hands jobs look for an A&P, but in that case ,you end up as the shop dog with a few flying duties or privileges. There are exceptions, but they're far more exception than rule. My first corporate position and my first turbojet position was as a copilot and Director of Maintenance. But working 80 hours plus in the shop, plus flying duties, not to mention the liabilities involved, didn't really represent a stellar step in a positive direction.

I have been hired several times as a pilot before contingent on my ability to turn a wrench, too. Also contingent on my ability to field all my own tools.

The direction you wish to take in aviation will be more of a determining factor in wheather you want to invest the time and effort (not to mention expense) necessary to achieve mechanic certification. Maintenance is a much broader field, requiring a much greater range of knowlege, skill, and expertise, than flying. What that means is that while you can get through the certification in eighteen months to two years, you still need a lot of full time hands on experience to be worth anything as a mechanic. And unlike a pilot that can make an hour checkout in most small airplanes and be ready to go, the mechanic needs to be intimately familiar with an airplane and it's working components when dealing with it.

On a personal level, as you move into various aircraft you'll find that often you can comprehend systems and the reasons behind what's done in an airplane more fully, and faster, with experience working on those systems. That knowledge may even save your life; it has mine, more than a few times. As a pilot, that adds an important aspect to your approach to flying, decision making, and developing a relationship with any given type airplane.

A word of caution; having the certificate can also be a liability and hold you back. Or you may simply be constrained from using your certificate. One particular government operation with which I was associated strictly forbid a pilot from simply putting a fuel cap back on, let alone working on the aircraft. When I first arrived, I requested permission to spend my free time in the shop in order to better learn the type aircraft, and was denied. It worked against me; they operated on a different philosophy and didn't want any crossover between the shop and operations.

I know an individual who holds mechanic certification, but has very questionable competence. He thinks he's a mechanic because he holds certification, but really he isn't. He wants to have the privilege of using his certificate, but the best thing that could happen to it is spontaneous combustion in his wallet; he's dangerous with a wrench. There are a lot of folks who have obtained the paper, but should never touch a wrench...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you want the certificate only to impress employers, don't do it. If you're going to get it and go to work full time turning wrenches, and are willing to devote the years it takes to learning the profession, then do it. It's up to you. Not enough information has been provided as to your goals and intents; these will determine whether this is something you really want to conisder doing. Either way, good luck.