pilot sentenced for being drunk

[N813CA]

Fo shows up..... How about the captain shows up. Can happen ya know.

 

[landlover]

Exactly. Figure he showed up on the curb maybe 45 minutes before the flight, plus a 2-hour flight AUS-DEN, plus another 15 minutes to the testing office. 0.94 three hours after showing up at work? The captain isn't the DB here...

unless he was boozing in the van, in the crew room, in the lav after take off etc...

 

[Raoul Duke]

Whole situation could have been avoided with Tic-Tacs

 

[CA1900]

Whole situation could have been avoided with Tic-Tacs

Uhhhh... no, it couldn't.

 

[jrmyl]

I agree that the FO bears the full blame for this. The captain spoke up as soon as he could.

My problem with this is the sentence. 6 months prison time? I can understand losing your job and your license, but not 6 months. You see in the news several times a year people who get caught drinking and driving for the 5th or 6th time. What do they get? Nothing other than a fine. I haven't seen one with jail time other than a few weeks of time served. This sentence is totally out of line in my opinion. Fire him and suspend his license. That should have been it.

 

[AGVMIA]

Over 8k hours, mostly PIC jet, airlines, etc, would NEVER throw a guy under the bus like that! Yes, the FO was intoxicated, but, give him a chance to bow out before you destroy his life. Now, if you give him a chance and he still acts stupid, that's another story. People do stupid things and much worse things in life with much lesser consequences, so while he was definitely wrong, you don't destroy someone's life like that. Compasion is something missing in today's world.

 

[N813CA]

At my 10 years of Part 121 experience as an FO. I 100% agree before the flight. After the flight It depends. That was a long flight and for him to still blow that high heck the crew should have sinced it before hand.

 

[regionalcap]

I agree that the FO bears the full blame for this. The captain spoke up as soon as he could.

My problem with this is the sentence. 6 months prison time? I can understand losing your job and your license, but not 6 months. You see in the news several times a year people who get caught drinking and driving for the 5th or 6th time. What do they get? Nothing other than a fine. I haven't seen one with jail time other than a few weeks of time served. This sentence is totally out of line in my opinion. Fire him and suspend his license. That should have been it.

Would you change your mind if you had a son or daughter on that flight? He put many lives at risk.

 

[CA1900]

My problem with this is the sentence. 6 months prison time? I can understand losing your job and your license, but not 6 months. You see in the news several times a year people who get caught drinking and driving for the 5th or 6th time. What do they get? Nothing other than a fine.

This isn't driving a Honda Civic home from the bar. This is driving a planeload of paying passengers in an airliner. There is a higher standard expected, and a lower alcohol limit in the law.

The America West Captain from the Miami incident got 5 years in prison; the FO got 2.5 years. And they didn't actually get in the air.

6 months was a gift. I hope he'll get help.

 

[OPECJet]

FO definitely is to blame. If you're the cap'n and find a drunk FO before the flight, what do you do? If you find out during / after what do you do? That''s all I'm sayin'. Not defending the FO for showing up drunk.

 

[Sig]

FO definitely is to blame. If you're the cap'n and find a drunk FO before the flight, what do you do? If you find out during / after what do you do? That''s all I'm sayin'. Not defending the FO for showing up drunk.

You see the issue.

It's almost impossible. If I was the CA on this flight, and 15 minutes after wheels up I smelled trouble... Wow.

The greasy company lawyers and the snake oiled defense lawyers can find a way to hang a totally innocent captain. That's my point.

 

[paddlehigh]

if tic tacs couldnt work then big red could have.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Nice Captain, why didn't he just tell him to call in sick before calling anyone.

Because the Captain was being a professional. I could understand if the FO got into the hotel van and the Captain smelled alcohol. Only then should he have encouraged the FO to call in sick. Once in the airplane (and operating a leg no less), different story.

This lush of an FO put the Captain in a bad position.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Over 8k hours, mostly PIC jet, airlines, etc, would NEVER throw a guy under the bus like that!

So what? I have almost 3 times your experience. What does your resume have to do with it? Make no mistake here. The FO threw himself under the bus.

Yes, the FO was intoxicated, but, give him a chance to bow out before you destroy his life. Now, if you give him a chance and he still acts stupid, that's another story. People do stupid things and much worse things in life with much lesser consequences, so while he was definitely wrong, you don't destroy someone's life like that. Compasion is something missing in today's world.

Nobody "destroyed his life" but himself. This FO made a conscious choice and choices have consequences.

As for a destroyed lives, do you remember the NWA pilots that were jailed for flying drunk? Didn't one of them serve his time in jail, went through a program and flew again for Northwest?

 

[regionalcap]

Because the Captain was being a professional. I could understand if the FO got into the hotel van and the Captain smelled alcohol. Only then should he have encouraged the FO to call in sick. Once in the airplane (and operating a leg no less), different story.

This lush of an FO put the Captain in a bad position.

Exactly. The time for calling in sick ended when he operated that flight. I would not risk my own career to protect someone who couldn't stay away from alcohol.

 

[zonejumper]

One has to wonder if this was the first time he operated a flight under the influence. I wouldn't be surprised if he did it before and either wasn't caught or had a CA who either didn't notice or didn't want to report it.

 

[aussieflyboy]

I agree that the FO bears the full blame for this. The captain spoke up as soon as he could.

My problem with this is the sentence. 6 months prison time? I can understand losing your job and your license, but not 6 months. You see in the news several times a year people who get caught drinking and driving for the 5th or 6th time. What do they get? Nothing other than a fine. I haven't seen one with jail time other than a few weeks of time served. This sentence is totally out of line in my opinion. Fire him and suspend his license. That should have been it.

You're KIDDING right?

I totally agree with you, 6 months is ridiculous. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN GIVEN 5+ YEARS!

How on earth can you compare someone who's been caught driving home from the bar at 2am over the limit to a guy who's operated a flight with 76 trusting passengers completely and utterly wasted?

Two crew members are required for operating a passenger airliner. The FO isn't there for decoration. Suppose something happened to the Captain while enroute that caused him to pass out. Now those folks have a guy at the helm who is probably over .1 BAC. He'd have a hard time even staying upright in his chair let alone making command decisions and using sound judgement.

They should have thrown away the G D key. 6 months? Pathetic.

 

[NEDude]

Over 8k hours, mostly PIC jet, airlines, etc, would NEVER throw a guy under the bus like that! Yes, the FO was intoxicated, but, give him a chance to bow out before you destroy his life. Now, if you give him a chance and he still acts stupid, that's another story. People do stupid things and much worse things in life with much lesser consequences, so while he was definitely wrong, you don't destroy someone's life like that. Compasion is something missing in today's world.

Who cares how much time you have. Your experience has no bearing on deciding what to do in this case.

The only person who threw the FO under the bus was the FO. The FO risked throwing the captain and a plane full of passengers under the bus because of his actions. The FO destroyed his own life and risked destroying the lives of everyone else on that plane and their families as well.

If the guy had such a serious problem that he could not recognize that it was wrong to fly a plane full passengers while hammered, he has no business EVER going near an airplane. The more I think about this the less I have sympathy for him and more I support the captain.

Let's just say the captain, before notifying anyone else, did tell the FO to call out sick after he had flown an airplane while drunk. Now the FO gets off with just a sick call. Do you think a guy with that big a problem will all of a sudden get help because the captain told him to call out sick? Perhaps, but I'd bet against it. By telling the guy to call out, and letting him live to fly drunk another day, you have just played Russian Roulette with more people lives. That does not seem like great judgement to me.

Compassion is one thing, and yes we need more of it. But in this case I think turning in the FO after being so careless and reckless really was more compassionate than giving him the opportunity to do it again. I am sure his potential future passengers and their families would agree with me.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I gotta agree with you Dude. Additionally, if the CA doesn't turn him in after discovering he was drunk, the CA becomes an accomplice to the "crime." That could cost the CA HIS license.

Nope, if this had happened on my flight deck, I'd have done EXACTLY the same thing.

 

[zonejumper]

NEDude and Fubi on the same page?! Run for your lives, boys and girls, the apocalypse is indeed upon us!