Pilot Mistakenly Lands At Ellsworth

[100LL... Again!]

I realize that mistakes do happen, and feel bad for the crew and what they must be going through now.

They will probably only get a week off and a letter in their file that will go away in a year or two.

I suppose when you already work for a major, the career implications are not that serious.

Mistakes like these, however, do nothing to help the "professionalism" argument come contract negotiation time. Nor, as someone put it, the public image of pilots.

It is very hard to seriously push that view when easy-to-avoid mistakes are made. I've had the other guy (happened when I was in both seats) roll their eyes at me for always verifying the approach course and dme when landing at even really familiar airports. But, I am a creature of habit, and I wanted that to be something I always did. I would not ever want to have to explain landing at the wrong airport.

The embarrasment is probably penalty enough. But this too shall pass. Better than a gear-up!

 

[dispatchguy]

Well, the NWA FRA DC10 crew was fired, so, if precedent is a guide, these guys will be as well...

 

[inline]

A DC9 crew with steam-driven avionics, I could almost accept this - but an instrument rated crew, in an A319 with all the bells and whistles - how in the he11?

The same thing should happen to this NW crew that happened to the NW DC10 crew a few years back - landed at Brussels thinking it was Frankfurt. Funny thing was the passengers all knew they were landing at BRU due to the moving map displays in the passenger cabin. F/As thought they had a mechanical issue that required landing at BRU. Everyone but the three crew members up front (who were allegedly navigating) knew they were landing at the wrong airport.

BRU and FRAs runways are aligned the same, but at FRA, the runways are blacktop - BRU they are concrete.

The pilots were terminated; the F/E had to do recurrent (I think, my memory is a bit fuzzy - been a while back, 1995 I think)

Great. A dispatcher monday-morning-quarterbacking. What can you possibly know about flying a transport jet? Don't pass judgment on the crew. You weren't there.

 

[wmudriver]

Similar setup in ELP

Lining up for the wrong runway is almost a daily occurance here in El Paso. We have Biggs Army Air Field that has a runway 4/22 while El Paso Int. has a 4/22 as well and they are both over 10000 feet long. I over heard the tower controller say its a daily occurance that they have to remind someone to make sure they are landing at the right field.

 

[CatYaaak]

Great. A dispatcher monday-morning-quarterbacking. What can you possibly know about flying a transport jet? Don't pass judgment on the crew. You weren't there.

Spare us, they were lost and didn't even know it. I think that even someone who's flying experience was limited to kites can make that judgement, let alone no time in a ....ahem...."transport jet". I'd love to hear your views as to why flying a ....(drum roll)......transport jet, makes it harder to find the right airport, not to mention the right country.

 

[Caveman]

Better pilots than me have landed gear up.


This was a professional airline crew. They weren't a couple of goofballs that ended up in the front seat of a NW airliner. They are as well trained and experienced as almost all of us on this board. They know about CRM. They have checklists. They have flows. Something went wrong and they made a terrible mistake. It's awful easy to sit here and throw rocks but there is no doubt in my mind that given the right set of circumstances this could potentially happen to any of us. Clearly, there were mistakes made but I think it's unfair and maybe even hypocritical of us to monday morning quarterback these guys. I'm not above making a mistake and neither are any of you. They should be held accountable but we all would be better served if we were privvy to the debrief to find out what went wrong so that we can avoid making the same mistake. If you think you are immune from making this gross an error ask yourself why this isn't an isolated incident? Over the years other crews have landed at the wrong airport. Were they all unprofessional, irresponsible idiots?

 

[100LL... Again!]

I tend to disagree with the "there are those who have and those who will" philosophy.

There are those who never will, and their approach to 'mistake avoidance' to coin a phrase will play the biggest part in their success.

Could it have been ANY of us? Nope.

Could it have been a LOT of us? Sure.


No one is saying that they were uprofessional idiots.

Some pilots have more discipline and better planning, though.

Let's be honest. A REALLY well-briefed approach COULD have gone a long way to preventing this.

Impulsiveness could also play a part in this type of error.

 

[DenverDude2002]

If I'm not mistaken dont the A319s have autoland? So why wasnt the planes computer flying?

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry, but when I'm in the terminal area, I've got the "Airports" box checked on the display control. If they didn't, they're getting what they deserved.

It ain't like it's a DC9 with paper maps...TC

 

[NJAowner]

Krap

I have flown into and over RAP many times (note I am not a pilot). EVen I know that the Air Force Base is along the approach from the east. It also does not have a terminal and has many aircraft "bunkers" along the airfield. It is very puzzling to me as a passenger especially with all of the electronics on board.

 

[HueyPilot]

RAP vs RCA

I flew into KRAP about a week before this incident. However, the approach plate clearly displayed the vicinity of RCA to RAP...granted we were using NIMA plates and perhaps they had NACO or Jepps, but there are other clues that could have helped them if they had any common sense.

First and foremost, look out the windscreen. There's a huge difference between a runway that's 13,500' X 300' and one that's 8700 ' X 150'. Next, RAP's ramp is on the west side, with all the usual small hangars, terminal buildings and civilian aircraft. RCA's ramp is on the east, with rows of B-1 bombers easily visible from the runway approach, along with bunkers and large aircraft hangars.

Next, I usually always back up visual approaches with some kind of instrument approach. Even if I have no intentions of actually flying the approach, I'll set in the localizer and DME frequencies, and dial up the inbound course in the HSI. And I'm sure the A319 is capable of doing what the Learjet 35 is...set up a GPS course to the airfield (called a PVOR in the Lear).

When we first checked in with approach, we could easily see RCA, and you could barely find RAP (it was CAVU daylight hours). But we knew which was which because we had both up on our MFD.

It's pretty inexcusable to do such a thing in an aircraft like the A319. Add on the fact that both pilots were 99.99% likely to both be highly experienced ATP professionals...makes me wonder what they were doing on the way down...flying the airplane or chit-chatting?

 

[inline]

Spare us, they were lost and didn't even know it. I think that even someone who's flying experience was limited to kites can make that judgement, let alone no time in a ....ahem...."transport jet". I'd love to hear your views as to why flying a ....(drum roll)......transport jet, makes it harder to find the right airport, not to mention the right country.

I don't need a dispatcher or your breathless anlalysis on who, what or why. YOU WERE NOT THERE! Also, take your "drum roll" and shove it.

 

[aptobright]

I know Lt Christine (Chris) Millette (the PAO at Ellsworth). I'll have to drop her an e-mail and give her a hard time.

No matter how you look at it there were three people fast asleep, the pilot, the copilot and the controller at Ellsworth. That is called "equal opportunity employment". aptobright