pilot fatigue due to commuting

[§kyye Candy]

Apparently it's not crew scheduling issues at all that is causing fatigue... it's YOUR fault for commuting! Who knew!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/11/travel-time-to-.html

Travel time to work is major factor in 'pilot fatigue'

George Stevens - Pittsburgh
Yes, airline pilots are often fatigued when they work, but current duty times are not unreasonable to ensure safety. The issue that often is not addressed by the unions, pilots, airlines or government is that many airline pilots do not live in the cities in which their airlines are based. This causes problems ("Fatigue key to mistakes among pilots," News, Thursday).
(Photo — Got sleep? Hundreds of pilots, mechanics and air-traffic controllers blame mistakes on fatigue, a USA TODAY analysis of safety records since 2003 shows.
/ By Eric Miller, Reuters)
Pilots who commute to work often begin their day much earlier than their official duty time. They make long drives through traffic or they fly standby on an airplane to get to their hub. With full flights and flight delays, this often adds stress to the pilot's workday, and he or she can get worn out before starting work. This is unsafe. Commuting time should be counted as duty time, if the airlines and government continue to allow pilots to live so far away from their hubs.
Sleeping in a pilot lounge on a sofa is not the same as sleeping in a bed in a quiet hotel or in one's bed at home. Let's not make more restrictive rules that only make us feel safer on paper. Let's address real issues that really do make flying safer.

 

[WSurf]

Funny thing is that the FAA considers your ride from the Airport to the Hotel as a rest period!

So if your on the wonderful 8 hr. rest overnight it sure is handy to get that awesome rest in the van to and from the airport.

The reduced rest overnight is what needs to be fixed! You should have no less then 10hrs between flight duties.

 

[§kyye Candy]

Funny thing is that the FAA considers your ride from the Airport to the Hotel as a rest period!

So if your on the wonderful 8 hr. rest overnight it sure is handy to get that awesome rest in the van to and from the airport.

The reduced rest overnight is what needs to be fixed! You should have no less then 10hrs between flight duties.

Not to mention the circadian rhythm swaps. Nothing like going from days to a high-speed and back again.

 

[turbodriver]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

 

[siucavflight]

I dont commute and I get fatigued.
I always find it funny that a dispatcher is only allowed 10 hours of duty per the FAA, but pilots are allowed 16 hours of duty.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Not sleeping tonight, have recurrent ground. Will sleep in class.. hehe

 

[socrates1]

All I know is Skyye Candy needs to change that avatar.

 

[siucavflight]

I tried to make it better with mine.

 

[socrates1]

yours is nice siucavflight.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Yes she is very nice. I wonder if she has any Italian in her. Would she like some.. hehe

 

[doh]

Yes she is very nice. I wonder if she has any Italian in her. Would she like some.. hehe

And right after your nap in ground school, you have 6 hours of sexual harrassment class!:laugh: :beer:

 

[doh]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

I'd agree with you if it were limited to 12 hours! 16 hour duty days are BS.

 

[rightseatjocky]

Laughing, that's ok, I'll take the class if she wants that Italian in her.

 

[§kyye Candy]

All I know is Skyye Candy needs to change that avatar.

hahahaha!

What's wrong - you don't like flying with chicks?!

Maybe I'll change my avatar when you guys change your swimsuit shots.... :laugh:

 

[LearLove]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

While I understand where your comming from but what about the guys who have been bumped from base or had their base closed (and they live there)? It's one thing if you say work for US Air and decide to live in BumbleFrick Montana then its on you.
We cant afford to move every 2 years. Thats crap. What about when you base gets moved to a city you can't afford to live in. This was my case - I live in the PHL area was based here and in early 2005 they "downsized" my base and I was bumped to DCA. As an MDA fo there was no way I was going to try and pay rent in a livable section of DC/Crystal city so I was forced to commute. Add that to the fact that in 2004 I had moved from SYR back to PHL. I wan't in the mood to pack up and move again within 12 months. Sometimes these management types need to take responsibility for their actions. Most guys just can't up and move every 2 years so they don't have to commute.

 

[WWEfan]

yours is nice siucavflight.

Yes, I have always appreciated his various avatars. Keep up the good work.

 

[Papps]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

That would be great duty days were only 12 hours and everyone made enough money to live in base. It would even be good if they were limited to 14 hours.

All winter long your going out to 16 hours enough times per month to make it old real fast. Then the scheduling tards try and get you to go 18 hours and part 91 a plane home. (no thanks)

Most first year FO's don't make enough to up and move into base without mom and dad paying the bills.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

Not realistic... airlines can't afford to hire pilots with the entire USA... if they were limited to pilots who only lived in domicile then the number of applicants would be severly limited.

Your post is not realistic and inconsiderate of many people that have real lives..

What do you say to the pilot father who has a sick child and needs his parents to help care... he gets displaced to another domicile...

Consider your world is not the only one.. many of us have been furloughed many times and started over.. we can't just back up our families every three years.

 

[rumrnr78]

I agree with scheudling on this one. Bull$hit schedules are besides the point in this context. If you choose to commute and deal with the stress and it adds 6 hours on top of your 12 hour duty day then that's your fault. Move to your domicile.

Look dipstick, I moved to domicile only to have it close 8 months later. I was forced to commute.

Not sure if your posts smacks of ignorance or stupidity. But, it certainly lacks sensitivity. I experienced a base closing and saw the effect it had on families in my company.

 

[dispatchguy]

I remember a long time ago of a COEX EWR ATR FO who lived in HNL, and commuted to EWR

Now THAT is a long commute

 

[Capn Lucky]

Not many people, me included, would feel fatigued on day 1 of a trip. I get really worn out on day 3 or 4 (or 5 or 6 on reserve). I've been commuting for 5 years and when day 1 is a tough one, I commute out the day before, as do many responsible crew members.

 

[doh]

And one more thing just to pile on turbo. Are you prepared to buy my house? Real estate is not exactly flying off the shelves. I am trying to sell my house right now to move to my base. It ain't happenin' fast! Think on that for a minute.:beer:

 

[Black Hawk]

Not realistic... airlines can't afford to hire pilots with the entire USA... if they were limited to pilots who only lived in domicile then the number of applicants would be severly limited.

Your post is not realistic and inconsiderate of many people that have real lives..

What do you say to the pilot father who has a sick child and needs his parents to help care... he gets displaced to another domicile...

Consider your world is not the only one.. many of us have been furloughed many times and started over.. we can't just back up our families every three years.

Good post. It's clear some folks here just don't know what they're talking about. Given the nature base closures and relocations that span the country it's not realistic to move just because some pilot base starts up or closes. Bases just aren't stable enough to reorder your life around. Even living at company headquarters or at the closest base isn't stable in the same time zone isn't secure. Look at what happened to the AWAC pilot group. Most airlines just don't offer the stability to warrant a move.

 

[IronCityBlue]

oh (big) brother

Maybe if airlines instituted this asinine policy (must live in base) they would finally awaken the sleeping giant when it comes to pilot labor. Being able to live where you want to/need to/can afford is one of the few good things we still have left.

If they did this with Flight Attendants, they would have mass resignations that would cripple the entire system. Would pilots fold? On many issues obviously yes, we will. But for this one, I'm not so sure.

This thread was obviously started either by a management plant/wanna be, a fear mongering journalist or a young buck prodegy superpilot who thinks they will get hired by their dream legacy by age 25 and they would move to anywhere because life's an adventure.

Do a few decades in the industry Mr/Ms Top Gun, and then tell us how we all must live in base. Ain't gonna happen. Ever.

You can be fatigued regardless of time on duty for a number of reasons. If every airline pilot called in fatugued or sick when they were, the system would collapse. With or without commuting. We carry this system on our backs every day. Take away the one good thing we have left and you'll see many pilots get fatigued from not calling in fatigued/sick to help the company.

Next I suppose pilots should be spied upon 24 hours per day, to make sure they actually do get proper rest while at home/on the road. Since you feel we can't be trusted to commute and you advocate taking that away from us, how can we be trusted with our time at home, even if we do live in base?

Shouldn't you have access to our cell phone records, so make sure we weren't talking during our rest period? Should our cable be turned off to guarantee we are sleeping? You can wiretap our phones to make sure we're not having any domestic disputes, cause that could be a distraction. We should also have to log our dreams for you for psychoanalysis, to ensure they are normal and well adjusted. You know, for safety.

In other words junior, mind your own business.

 

[§kyye Candy]

This thread was obviously started either by a management plant/wanna be, a fear mongering journalist or a young buck prodegy superpilot who thinks they will get hired by their dream legacy by age 25 and they would move to anywhere because life's an adventure.

Do a few decades in the industry Mr/Ms Top Gun, and then tell us how we all must live in base. Ain't gonna happen. Ever.

This reply was obviously posted by someone with no sense of dry sarcasm. Read the italicized comment above the article (mine.) Doh!

For the record, I agree with most of the rest of your post. It was the retarded nature of the pinhead journalist who authored the article that caused me to post it.

 

[Big Foot]

Funny thing is that the FAA considers your ride from the Airport to the Hotel as a rest period!

So if your on the wonderful 8 hr. rest overnight it sure is handy to get that awesome rest in the van to and from the airport.

The reduced rest overnight is what needs to be fixed! You should have no less then 10hrs between flight duties.

Agreed reduced rest should be used if all hell breaks loose and they need to keep the schedule going. However trip after trip I am scheduled for reduced rest.

 

[skyaddict]

If the feds or airlines really want to eliminate the safety hazards of commuting, let them homebase all their pilots and airline them to their assignments on the clock like some of the fracs and cargo carriers. As has been stated in this thread, asking pilots to live in base is absurd- beancounters change domiciles on a whim, and many hubs are too expensive for FO's and FA's.

 

[Metro752]

Fatigue waiting for freight, in a plush recliner at the FBO!

 

[Papps]

Fatigue waiting for freight, in a plush recliner at the FBO!

A plush recliner at an FBO is not all that invigorating especially when you are going to part 91 home from mexico city (+ 1 fuel stop)after your 14 hour duty day is done. Just to spend 10 hours at home waiting to get green to do that 18+ hour mess all over again.