Pilot bill passes house

[dougdrvr]

One of the greatest myths in aviation is that military fighter guys are not exposed to, nor well practiced in, CRM techniques.

Other than limited cross-country flying, single-seat flyers function almost exclusively in "multi pilot" environments. Every meaningful mission is flown with a multiple of four or more jets. Thus, the need for effective CRM - and the necessity to overcome the challenges thereto - are merely enhanced when you cannot simply turn across the cockpit and see the crania of those with whom you are flying...

Cheers,

Felix

CRM? What happened to "2","3", "4", or "MAYDAY"?

 

[CTid]

That's "Bingo, Mayday, and Lead you're on fire"

 

[Oh-ryan]

One of the greatest myths in aviation is that military fighter guys are not exposed to, nor well practiced in, CRM techniques.

Other than limited cross-country flying, single-seat flyers function almost exclusively in "multi pilot" environments. Every meaningful mission is flown with a multiple of four or more jets. Thus, the need for effective CRM - and the necessity to overcome the challenges thereto - are merely enhanced when you cannot simply turn across the cockpit and see the crania of those with whom you are flying...

Cheers,

Felix

Disagree slightly. Single seat guys will never be able to polish the critical CRM skill of not choking the crap out of the guy sitting next to you. Pivotal to this CRM skill is the equally important skill of avoiding getting the crap choked out of you by the guy sitting next to you.

 

[Lear70]

*snicker*

 

[pilotyip]

We always wondered what kind of pilot liked to take off from the boat, single engine, on-fire, and low fuel state. And that was a good as it would get.

 

[waveflyer]

I'd say it's a myth that fighter pilots are qualified for major airline pilot positions. They survive- but it's a hook-up.

 

[Monster Buck]

An ATP should be required for any airline job. Passengers deserve qualified pilots flying their aircraft. Buffalo is a good example of hiring minimumly qualified pilots.

Buffalo wasn't really about hiring minimally qualified pilots, its more about the fact that people don't get fired anymore for failing multiple check rides. The sim guys did their job, he failed many times. After that....a little retrain and back to the line. If you suck and fail multiple check rides....it should be bye bye!

 

[CTid]

It would be highly unusual to be able to utter all 3 at once. AF mx was usually fairly good. A wingie might go several missions without independently saying anything, unless he consistently bingoed out 1st. Then he'd get hammered for poor fuel management.

 

[SIG600]

That's "Bingo, Mayday, and Lead you're on fire"

Actually it's "two, you're on fire, I've got the fat chick" are the only things you want to hear from your wingman.

CRM is actually an annual requirement for us, administered by CRM facilitators that are certified by the Naval Safety Center (speaking for the US Navy). While it's not exactly the same in practice as it is in the 121 world, the basic principles are the same.

When there is an emergency within a section or division, everyone is backing him up with the book, someone will take the radios and let him manage his own jet, facilitate with ATC, work with base or the ship, talk to reps on the boat, etc. It's VERY much a team effort, anyone that thinks otherwise doesn't know single seat aviation.

That said, going from a single seat jet, to a multicrew a/c can be a mind shift for guys, especially those that have flown 2-3000 hours of single seat and are used to doing everything on their own. Although it's not impossible, but it's on both crew members to not only work together, but debrief any issues you had so both of you can get better.

 

[Gunfighter]

Actually it's "two, you're on fire, I've got the fat chick" are the only things you want to hear from your wingman.

I've said the first two and heard the third. My wingman set the bar low early in the night.

You actually learn a lot about CRM when you are teaching a pilot to fly an airplane that you aren't in. Or even flying with an experienced wingman. You fly your airplane and monitor, instruct or evaluate from your own fighter. You've got to learn to manage cockpit resources in several cockpits not just your own. Many of the skills do transition.

On the transition from fighters to airlines...

During the maneuvers validation, we get to the single engine rejected landing and subsequent single engine landing. On the go around, the evaluator freezes the sim, looks at me and asks "Single seat fighter guy, right?"

Me: "Yes Sir"
Evaluator to Captain: "Your well aged heart gave out with the #1 engine"
Evaluator to Me: "You've been waiting for this all morning haven't you?"
Me: "You mean I get to fly, run the checklists and talk on the radio? It feels strangely familiar."

Fortunately I had a several instructors who did an outstanding job explaining the similarities and differences of Captain and F/O compared to Flight Lead and Wingman. That helped me out the other 99% of the time when the captain wasn't dead. Once you define the roles and responsibilities it's easy to apply lessons from the multi-airplane environment to the multi-pilot environment.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I did a little bit of single pilot-airplane stuff in training. I was told several times I should not be using my checklist for anything. Different than my multi-crew military flying.

cliff
NBO