Picking up extra work with guys on the street

[jonjuan]

Close, but no cigar.

When the itinerary calls for a pre-positioned crew at a tech stop, say in Anchorage, to conduct a long range flight, the customer is billed for those expenses.

When the crew has to be swapped out halfway through a trip, say while the customer is doing his three days of business in Beijing, the COMPANY eats the expense. Just as if the customer was in Toledo for three days and it was time for the crew to go home.

Customer convenience: customer pays.

Company (or contract) convenience: company pays.

So, guys extend because they altruistically want to save the company money and not because it's an easy way to make some jack? Bottom line is that the company would need more pilots if guys didn't extend.

 

[gutshotdraw]

That's crap. If people bid off the 18 day, THEN they might need more pilots on the property.

And guess what. If my choice is extending a day and flying a trip back to the CONUS or riding in a crowd-killer in 26E for 9.5 hours, you damn skippy I'm going to extend. And so would you.

 

[waveflyer]

All about you, eh?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Me and every other pilot on the property faced with the same choice.

 

[jonjuan]

And guess what. If my choice is extending a day and flying a trip back to the CONUS or riding in a crowd-killer in 26E for 9.5 hours, you damn skippy I'm going to extend. And so would you.

Ahhhh, now I get it....extending is now just getting back the the US commercially and has nothing to to with flying a few more days internationally. Funny how you like to justify. It used to be "It's difficult to fly a crew to Timbuktu to catch up to a trip" and now it's "extending a day back to CONUS (of course in a middle a seat as always)." Do you no longer fly in BIZ overseas?
Dude, quit trying to justify why your buds pick up overtime while your brothers are out on the street struggling to make ends meet with families suffering.

 

[fischman]

I really don't think this belongs in a 121 forum, but since it is...

Our 121 friends for the most part aren't privy to our business model. It is different from theirs, and required a different mode of thinking. Staffing at our company is determined by airframes, and airframes only. Picking up extended days will not, and does not effect staffing levels.

Having said that, is it a good idea to pick up extended days in our climate? NO!!! Why? I'm glad you asked!

#1) You are screwing yourself out of money if you do. If you don't extend scheduling is going to use you anyway, not be able to get you home by midnight, and whamo you got yerself 2 days after-midnight pay. imp:

#2) Section 6 negotiations, believe it or not, have begun. Negotiations are all about LEVERAGE. Why give the company leverage FOR FREE!?! In every negotiation there is a give and take. When you extend, it is a give and give.

Pilots have always been their own worst enemies.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ahhhh, now I get it....extending is now just getting back the the US commercially and has nothing to to with flying a few more days internationally. Funny how you like to justify. It used to be "It's difficult to fly a crew to Timbuktu to catch up to a trip" and now it's "extending a day back to CONUS (of course in a middle a seat as always)." Do you no longer fly in BIZ overseas?
Dude, quit trying to justify why your buds pick up overtime while your brothers are out on the street struggling to make ends meet with families suffering.

There are lots of reasons for extending "dude" and it isn't my place, or yours, to tell somebody not to. As Fish pointed out, extended days DO NOT affect staffing levels in a fractional business model.

And since you asked, no we DON'T fly biz class anymore when the block time on the crowd-killer is under 10 hours.

BTW Fish, some of us DON'T get paid two days for after midnights, only one.

Regardless, I have my reasons for NOT extending just as others have their reasons FOR extending. Or bidding the 18 day.

 

[waveflyer]

Explain for the fractionally challenged how extending doesn't reduce the need for pilots-
Honest question-

Gutshot- if we all negotiated our own individual contracts, I'd agree with your attitude-
But you and everyone on this board - (even JBlu) collectively bargains. That's when it becomes everyone's business.

 

[BentOver]

I posted this question in the Majors (121) forum mostly to get another opinion. (I did fly 121 for 5 years, was ALPA, and as many did, got screwed by my company one way or another)

I did have an alterior motive for posting here also. To ge the plight of Netjets extended day issues, mentality of some etc, into another segment of the industry. (on a very small scale)

Maybe, on a long shot, someone at Netjets will run into a colleague at a major. Hopefully that colleague at a major will ask his NJA buddy. "dude, what's up with your pilot group picking up so many days of extra flying?"

yes, it is a shameless attempt to persuade even one NJA pilot from extended if he/she was on the fence about doing so....

When it comes to flying extra flying (lining your pockets) when others are possibly having trouble feeding their families, I will do as much as I can to expose those individuals or atleast attempt to make their aviation lives as difficult as possible.

Fischman:
#1)Extra flying most certainly affects staffing. The new corporate culture is to do more with less. In essence, NJA is being allowed to do more with less. And will continue to do so until they realize otherwise.

#2) although airlines operate more on a block hour system. The number of aircraft does have an influence on staffing also. Ever hear of 10:1 pilot to aircraft ratio. Why do you think 121 guys (FO's) get excited when their companies order more a/c?

I agree with your other points about negotiations.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Bent, 1000 extended pilot days versus somewhere in the neighborhood of 30,000 additional pilot days because of the 18 day. Who is "lining their pockets" more?

When people start bidding off 18 day en masse, THEN I'll start lobbying people not to extend.