Pi$$ off the TSA-Lose your ticket

[surv1]

Today, the TSA is publishing and putting into effect new rules that allow the TSA to direct the FAA to immediately suspend or revoke your ticket if "they" determine that you are some kind of a security threat. The rules also provide that the TSA does NOT and will NOT have to provide you with any infomation or sources on which they base their assessment that you are a security threat. There are two sets of rules, one for US pilots and one for foreign pilots. There is also no formal appeal process, just a 15 day period on which to reply and prove why you are not a security threat. They won't provide you with the info to rebutt, just the 15 day opportunity to do so. The TSA decision is final, and the FAA has no recourse. I just read the official rules and they are chilling, the possibility for abuse is staggering. Below is the AOPA's announcement of the rules, they have a link to the actual rules, take a few minutes and read. This can't be good, folks.

Jan. 23 — The FAA and Transportation Security Administration (TSA) tomorrow will publish "direct final rules" that permit FAA to immediately suspend, revoke, or refuse to issue an airman certificate of anyone that TSA has determined poses a threat to transportation security. The agencies issued the rules under the authority Congress gave them when it passed the Aviation Transportation Security Act of 2001 and directed TSA and FAA to "make modifications in the system for issuing airman certificates related to combating acts of terrorism

 

[VFR on Top]

Gotta love this part:

"Under sec. 1540.115(c) of the final rule, an individual poses a security threat if the individual is suspected of posing or is known to pose: (1) a threat to transportation or national security..."

Lemme get this straight: if TSA suspects that you pose a threat, then you in fact pose a threat. Anyone else have a problem with such logic? And why does this remind me of Nazi Germany? "Anyvone suspected of _____ vill be shot!" That's like saying anyone suspected of being guilty of murder is in fact guilty of murder and can be punished accordingly!

More fun:

"This rule codifies the fundamental and inherently obvious principle that a person who TSA determines [or merely suspects; see previous quote] poses a security threat should not hold an FAA-issued airman certificate."

So yes, under this new rule, your certificates can now be revoked simply for being SUSPECTED of posing a threat. Nice.

And finally:

"The Undersecretary finds that [public] notice and comment are unnecessary, impracticable, and contrary to the public interest pursuant to section 553 of the Administrative Procedure Act (APA)."

Yeah, we don't want anyone injecting common sense into the picture.

You airline guys think you're being inconvenienced by the TSA now; just wait til guys start being "suspected" of posing a terrorist threat simply for vocally opposing the alterations Lott and McCain have in mind for the Railway Labor Act.

Can somebody speed up the clock to 2004 so we can vote these loons out of office already?

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

This is GREAT news! I feel so much safer. It is such a secure feeling knowing yet another government agency has the "authority" without accountability to punish law abiding citizens oops I mean suspected terrorist.
What is interesting if Clinton were the Prez and he did this stuff the conservatives would be howling but now we have a "conservative" Prez it is somehow OK. There is a lot of talk among the airline folks how companies don't honor their contracts. Well, we have a government that doesn't honor its constitution. We're becoming a nation that is subservient to the government rather the government being for the citizens.
This is still the greatest country to live in but I am afraid our uniqueness (via our freedoms) is quickly deteriorating.
BTW, for those who feel they have nothing to hide and don't care about all the government intrusion especially since a "conservative" is in office....how would you feel if it were Hillary Clinton? Once these agencies are set in place there is no telling how another administration will use or abuse it. Bottom line is we've got a government out of control. They want us to blindly trust them but they sure don't trust the citizens.

 

[seagle]

A very simple solution is at hand. Every pilot, and I mean EVERY pilot should refuse to fly until this mess is straigntened out! Talk about crippling the airline industry and putting a severe hurt on an already flailing economy. Would the TSA have jobs then? Talk about "thousands standing around" with no air travel. They would all be unemployed as quickly as they were hired! Why doesn't ALPA/APA step in with some rather harsh criticism of the TSA? And my final thought... what on earth did the pilots do to deserve this type of treatment? As a retired military officer who put his @ss on the line for 20 years protecting this nation I resent this idiotic treatment by the TSA! Bush was right, we never should have federalized these folks!

 

[ifly4food]

It's very scary how we inch closer every day to the Orwellian prophecy:

1. "TIPPS" program. (Congress just dealt it a setback yesterday, but the NSA still is going forward with it).
Make a centralized database of information gleaned from surveliance videos (ATMs, traffic cams, security cams) and link it with electronic commerce like internet sales and credit card transactions. Merge this with monitoring of the Internet. This will make up a massive monitoring program, run by the government, to monitor Americans for "terrorist activity". This is in the name of national security, of course.
Big Brother is watching.

2. The TSA.
This is the first time in American history that we have had a police force operated by the Federal government who has the authority to oversee every aspect of our daily lives and can act with unchecked power as they report to no one. Merely being suspicious of something constitutes a crime.
Think it's just security checkpoints? Think again. The TSA now reviews flight plans, monitors highway and rail travel, checks airline databases, and apparently has the power to prosecute without a trial. All this for national security.
The Thought Police are coming.

3. War.
Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego. If this continues and we attack Iraq or N. Korea without provocation or cooperation we are headed to World War III.
It's no secret that our economy is suffering. A war is the best way to rally a nation's people to work harder. It also takes people's attention away from WHY an economy is suffering and gives the nation a tool to use against anyone who dissents (you're unpatriotic you must be a terrorist. See #2).
A war that never ends used to force the people into productivity.

Perhaps Orwell should have named his book 2004. He was only off by 20 years.

 

[tacojet]

reference to what merikeyegro said...

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin

A timeless quote which echos all of these new rules to enhance our perceived "safety".

 

[Frank Bama]

Remeber when the TSA were friendly for about the first week that they were around. I find that they glare at flight crews more than the passengers. Gotta love it, especially when my flight kit was torn apart because the guy obviously has never seen a pair of headsets before. Isn't this fun. Fly Safe.

 

[azpilot]

Who says you need a pilot license to pose a security threat anyway. So if I don't have a license I can't steal an aircraft and cause damage?

More paranoia by our current government. People need to be very careful. Our basic rights are being taken away in the name of protecting society from the evil doers. But, you have nothing to worry about right?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Our esteemed president has decided that we need a war and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. This is purely to sustain his own ego.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks this way. I don't know what's driving the Bush obsession with Iraq, but it's becoming spooky.

North Korea is already a bigger threat than Saddam will ever be. Why isn't George II "strong arming" them the way he is Saddam? (I guess there's no oil in Korea...)


Anyway, back to the TSA...

 

[Dep676]

First Bush thinks he needs to finish what his father didn't have the balls to do.

Second that's just crazy about the TSA. Most of them don't have the first clue about who poses a threat ot not. They just ait around with there thimbs in there a$$ until somebody tells them what to do. Then when they search your bag they leave in shambles. Then they don't let you near it to straighten there mess up. Just another government position for people to get a hane out from the government. Sounds kind of like the welfare system. That our tax dollars hard at work.

 

[flywithastick]

I know it would do absolutely no good to call anyone in the executive branch, so I tried calling Sens Hutchison (202-224-5922) and Cornyn's (202-224-2934) aviation people. got voice mail.

Tried Rep DeLay's (202-225-4000) aviation person. got voice mail.

Ever wonder why the sneeky govt bureaucratic weasel b@$tards slide this stuff through on Friday? They know they're overstepping the bounds of reason and it won't go over well with the people.

Really makes me wonder how *anyone* can support the fed govt agencies, thinking they're working *for* us. They're out of control.

Also, while looking at the TSA website, I found this under "contact us"...

Address
U.S. Department of Transportation
Transportation Security Administration
Office of Civil Rights
Mail Stop: TSA-6
400 7th Street, Southwest
Washington, D.C. 20590

Ironic.

 

[Dep676]

I sent e-mails to my congressman and representatives. Also I think we should e-mail Bill O'rielly at Foxnews. He seems to raise a lot stink on stupid crap like this. He would probably get father than the crooked politicians will.

 

[spitfire1940]

Why don't they just arrest us all when we show up at the plane?

It is said that Stalin wanted to deport the entire population of Ukraine to Siberia. the only thing that stopped him was the the Soviet Union didn't have enough railroad cars. Don't ask me what that has to do with TSA, but I wanted to add my righteouss indignation to the thread.

On another note ...

FlyChicaga, I dub thee, King of the Avatars.

Is that Kornikova again? Holy cats ....

 

[checkessential]

I would like a lolipop. You may PM me for where to send it. Thank you.

 

[dsee8driver]

Good article..

In the Federal Register Friday, you'll be able to see that you can be
knocked out of the air -- just like that -- if the TSA alleges that you pose
a 'security risk.' Pilots will be immediately grounded; mechanics, DERs --
everybody who holds a certificate of any kind from the FAA -- can be
immediately out of a job.

The TSA will notify you that you are considered a 'security risk.' It will
notify the FAA; and the FAA will immediately suspend your ticket(s), pending
your 'appeal.'

You will then have to convince the TSA (which already declared you a
'security risk') that you are not a 'security risk,' without your knowing
why they think you are such a risk. Then, when the TSA issues its final
ruling, the FAA will revoke your papers.

We wanted some confirmation on this, and called the TSA. Chris Rhatigan, in
the press office there, said, "You may have to talk to the FAA on that."

We read her a part of the summary, which says, "This final rule expressly
makes a person ineligible to hold FAA-issued airman certificates if the
Transportation Security Administration notifies the FAA in writing that the
person poses a security threat."

As we continued reading, and noted that the TSA was calling the shots, she
said, "Hold on a second." She returned, and said, "This [determination that
you're a security threat] comes from an intelligence database." OK -- so,
how do we know how big a threat, or how it's determined that one even is
such a threat? "We don't tell people how to get on to that database," she
said. In other words, if you're denied your certificate, you won't be able
to find out why -- just that someone, somewhere, thinks you're a 'security
risk.'

Ms Rhatigan informed us that everything would be spelled out in the NPRM,
and that we'd have to wait until Friday, to see what was getting published
in the Federal Register. Well, folks the law goes into effect Friday. No
NPRM. No discussion. Decree. Tough.

Well, we have an advance copy of that law. The document's "explanation" is
merely procedural; there is no underlying reasoning explained; and the
airman is simply screwed, without recourse.
First, you're grounded -- no questions asked. Then you can start the
'appeal' process.

Here's how it works: the TSA will notify the purported 'security risk' that
he is considered a 'security risk,' and the FAA will immediately ground the
flier/mechanic/etc. The accused can then tell the TSA that he's not a
'security risk;' but, without knowing on what basis the determination was
initially made, the accused is defending himself, blindfolded. The TSA is
then the final arbiter of determining whether the accused (whom they have
already declared a 'security risk,' while possibly taking away his means of
making a living and likely ruining his reputation) actually is a 'security
risk.'
ALPA's Initial Reaction

John Mazor, spokesman for ALPA, the largest pilots' union, told ANN that his
organization is taking a close look at the NPRM. It was too early to say
anything definitive (we had told the union of this NPRM just minutes
earlier); but he was willing to say, "As described, it has some disturbing
implications." He assured us, "ALPA's security people are interested in
studying the NPRM."

[Note: we reported earlier that this is to be an NPRM, with a comment
period. Nope. It's just the way it is, effective Friday --ed.]
FMI: www.tsa.gov, www2.faa.gov/avr/arm/rinah84.pdf

For the WHOLE story, go to http://www.aero-news.net/news/featurestories.cfm?ContentBlockID=7554

 

[VFR on Top]

And as we've all learned from the credit bureaus, NCIC, etc., databases are never wrong.

 

[dispatchguy]

Here's ALPAs take on it:

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030124/dcf049_1.html

 

[dispatchguy]

I find this part of the docket submission particularly interesting...

TSA has performed an expected cost-benefit analysis for the final rule. To date, from a pool of approximately 1.35 million holders of airmen certificates issued by the FAA in the last ten years, TSA has identified 11 persons who are security threats. Estimating the number of FAA certificates that will be issued in the next ten years, from 2003 to 2012, TSA has found that an estimated nine persons out of an estimated 1.11 million airmen certificates over the ten years will be flagged or at least one person per year. If, however, the estimates are off by as much as a factor of ten, TSA estimates that approximately 100 persons may be impacted over the ten-year period. This estimates equates to ten persons per year over the ten-year period.

And out of those 11 cited, arent some of them now charcoal briquets on the ground in NYC and Washington DC?

Could 1 one a year, could be 10 - hell, we just dont know. So, we'll take the draconian step that everyone is guilty until proven innocent - and we wont give you the details to help you prove your innocence. Yeah, thats due process. Atta (I wonder if his 2nd INS-issued student visa is still valid) would be proud.

Whats the fone number of that Canadian truck-driving school?

 

[Indapool]

let's keep this at the top folks

 

[list2002]

Imagine if they didn't meet their quota of suspected threats, then the government would have to explain what they are doing with this informaiton and the money spent to find it.
I suspect they meet their quota every year.
I bet they'll still issue a pilot cert to anyone with a visa though.
I am one of those "I have nothing to hide, you gotta do what you gotta do" type people, but this is spooky, thanks all for sparking my concern about our government. I will try to learn more and start making a change.