Phl?

[350DRIVER]

Anyone else have any complications due to the medical emergency in PHL last night onboard the #30 aircraft or so in line? Supposedly after the medical emergency the aircraft then had a mx and needed a tow back to the gate... A short trip from PHL to PIT turned into about 4.5 hours when all was said and done all while waiting on an Airways A-319 on a taxi way.

what a night to say the least...

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[Flywrite]

Sounds like a typical Philly CF...I left out at 6:30 ish, what time did it happen?

 

[350DRIVER]

4 hours on a taxiway in PHL is "typical"?. You have got to be fukcing kidding me?
happened around 915ish pm in the evening. I think it was far from normal, I understand the ground stops and flow delays at PHL but no way is 4 hours sitting on a taxiway "normal". Many had to return to re-fuel, we were fortunate in that regard that we didn't. Airways did a nice job though to keep the pax happy (or a few of them) with the inflight service taking place on the ground.


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[Flywrite]

Sorry if I touched a nerve...didnt mean to imply that 4 hours was normal...2.5 is the longest I have sat in line there. There was a ground stop today at 1600ish for PHL, though. Weather there was few @ 4500/10 sm...Gotta love Philly

4 hours on a taxiway in PHL is "typical"?. You have got to be fukcing kidding me?
happened around 915ish pm in the evening. I think it was far from normal, I understand the ground stops and flow delays at PHL but no way is 4 hours sitting on a taxiway "normal". Many had to return to re-fuel, we were fortunate in that regard that we didn't. Airways did a nice job though to keep the pax happy (or a few of them) with the inflight service taking place on the ground.


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[350DRIVER]

Sorry if I touched a nerve...didnt mean to imply that 4 hours was normal...2.5 is the longest I have sat in line there. There was a ground stop today at 1600ish for PHL, though. Weather there was few @ 4500/10 sm...Gotta love Philly

Ahaaa.... nawwww, it was no joy after about hour number 3. Fortunately all is water under the bridge now but a few pax sure let the crew have it last night. I was just thankful for the free ride so I can't complain too much or really at all for that matter. I had a feeling that it would be an "eventful flight" when soon after pushback the captain needed to return to the gate to reset something on the 319, think that really was the tip of the iceberg for a few onboard. Just was curious if anyone else had any problems.

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[350DRIVER]

Fly,

Any chance you were on C during the security breach at the checkpoint where they started to clear the entire concourse?

a fun day in PHL to say the least. TSA at it's finest....

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[Flywrite]

I heard about it, but thankfully my present position generaly keeps me out of airline terminals.

Fly,

Any chance you were on C during the security breach at the checkpoint where they started to clear the entire concourse?

a fun day in PHL to say the least. TSA at it's finest....

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[NuGuy]

Hey all,


Yup, PHL can be a real CF. Back in the day, 2 hour sits when it was VFR were common.

If you want to expidite your departure, make sure your departure fix favors 35 from the intersection if your aircraft performance allows for it. We used to find out which way the airport was going, then call dispatch to change the flight plan to something with a fix that would allow us to use 35. The routing was longer, but you more than made that up in the air. Typically, depending on the time of day, you would save :45-1:00 of ground time.

Nu

 

[ATCER]

I'm not surprised at this... with the weather in the Northeast, especially around NY metro PHL was a mess. It seems like we went into a hold for PHL on Tuesday and came out of it on Thursday.

All that weather hit PHL first, Everyone shut our PHL inbounds down... we ran out of room holding em in the center and stopped taking them. Flights out of FL and Caribbean points to the south (USAir) were deverting to CLT.

We hussled a few JFK inbounds up trying to get em in before the room (New York Tracon) shut us down, one Jetblue we gave directs, speed his discretion, is approaching CAMRN and says "ugh... we are too heavy to land, can we make some 360's to burn off fuel ???" Why can't the A320 dump fuel ??? This has happened before... I have always wondered about this...

Sorry to hijack the thread... Just wanted to mention that we hold fro PHL more the any other East coast airport.

 

[Flywrite]

Tuesday was pretty awful up there, but yesterday was OK. ATCER, where do you work?

 

[EagleRJ]

I'm glad I don't fly in the NE anymore! The frustration from delays more than offsets the OT you make.

Why can't the A320 dump fuel ??? This has happened before... I have always wondered about this...

Aircraft are not allowed to dump fuel for non-emergency reasons. If a plane is too heavy to land, all we can do is request a few turns or get delay vectors, get a lower altitude, or in extreme cases, put the gear down 100NM out and drag it on in.

The A320 may not even be able to dump fuel. Most smaller airliners can't.

 

[NuGuy]

Aircraft are not allowed to dump fuel for non-emergency reasons. The A320 may not even be able to dump fuel. Most smaller airliners can't.

You got an FAR for that, or is that a company specific rule? At some shops, dumping fuel is listed as one way to fix an overweight landing issue. Their reasoning is that since you are going to burn it off anyway, you might as well dump it and save the block time on the crew and airplane.

A320s can't dump fuel. I believe the FARs say that as long as the max landing weight is within a certain percentage of the max takeoff weight, AND the aircraft has been shown in certification that a overweight landing above the max landing weight AND at or below the max takeoff weight can be safely accomplished using somewhat normal procedures, then the fuel dumping requirement is waived.

Still, any overweight landing is going to be a abnormal procedure, requiring varying degrees of aircraft inspection and other assorted paperwork. If you show up before you reach MLW, you better take care of it somehow before landing unless you have some sort of problem where you need to be on the ground.

On the old tech, crusing at a lower altitude, or with the spoilers/slats/flaps out can be used to fix a fuel problem.

Nu

 

[Mach.75]

Why not 17??

We were in Phil-thy a couple of days ago when the Wx hit the fan. Asked Clearence if we could take 17 (as 9L had a line that went the entire RW, and then into the ramp), he replied; "Only if you're a dash or jetstream." Asked if that was for noise, he said it was for other reasons.

Any one know what the reasons are?

 

[ATCER]

Tuesday was pretty awful up there, but yesterday was OK. ATCER, where do you work?

ZNY (New York Center)

We were in Phil-thy a couple of days ago when the Wx hit the fan. Asked Clearence if we could take 17 (as 9L had a line that went the entire RW, and then into the ramp), he replied; "Only if you're a dash or jetstream." Asked if that was for noise, he said it was for other reasons.

Any one know what the reasons are?

Props and Jets are routed differently both inbound and outbound for reasons such as there speed, final altitude, shorter proximity of their trips. That is the way flow control is set up. During SWAP (which we were in all week) that especially applies.

It's like the short line in the DMV...

 

[ATCER]

I'm glad I don't fly in the NE anymore! The frustration from delays more than offsets the OT you make.


Aircraft are not allowed to dump fuel for non-emergency reasons. If a plane is too heavy to land, all we can do is request a few turns or get delay vectors, get a lower altitude, or in extreme cases, put the gear down 100NM out and drag it on in.

The A320 may not even be able to dump fuel. Most smaller airliners can't.

I have seen guys dump just to lighten the load to land... we vector them out over the ocean for this...

I wonder why the A320 was not set up to dump fuel ??? I think the 737's can... but I'm not sure.

 

[Smoking Man]

Question about PHL

When we take the dornier (PROP) out of PHL during SWAP, sometimes we will get asked if we can take tower enroute (our dispatch for some reason can't tell the difference between the Dork and the CRJ, so we get filled at FL180 PHL-ELM).


On trip was PHL-CRW and we were asked if we could take tower enroute? So some quick math and we had more than enough fuel, so we told them we could, so in less than five minutes we were airborne to CRW (35 intersection K). I would not be suprised if 20+ airplanes were still on the ground in line, how did tower enoroute help in that situation? Also if I am not mistaken traffic was stoped going our direction, but we were allowed to depart at 8000ft?

 

[Propsync]

Easy, tower enroute keeps you out of center's flow. It's almost like your not even there.

 

[NuGuy]

Easy, tower enroute keeps you out of center's flow. It's almost like your not even there.

True...you can usually go tower enroute all day long until you run out of adjacent approach controls. We use to go from DCA up to HPN tower enroute, and you would wind up talking to like 6 or 7 approach controls on the way up.

You can also try going tower enroute to scoot out from under a conjested hub or flow control programs. Some places have a program in place called LAADR where you go tower enroute for the first portion of the flight.

If there is no LAADR program in place, you can really get burned, however. Once you get on the other side of the adjacent terminal airspace, and request to climb up, center has no obligation to accept you at a higher altitide. If you're not a turboprop, better bring enough gas.

Nu

 

[nimtz]

ZNY (New York Center)

Maybe you can tell me why Washington Center shuts everyone down so bad after 3pm? I know going up to EWR that I'm always need my patience, but the backups on good days always are blamed on the folks in DC. Oh well keep up the good work. This summer has been as ugly as I thought it would be...

 

[ATCER]

Maybe you can tell me why Washington Center shuts everyone down so bad after 3pm? I know going up to EWR that I'm always need my patience, but the backups on good days always are blamed on the folks in DC. Oh well keep up the good work. This summer has been as ugly as I thought it would be...

It depends on who you ask...

All kidding aside... all the centers on the East Coast are extremely busy. ZDC has a huge volume of Enroute traffic north and southbound plus has to deal with PHL, IAD, DCA, which throw in a whole different set of problems. All your centers on the east coast have different philosophies on how they handle flows... ZDC tends to pull the plug before things get out of hand. I have found that where I work they let things go a bit further before pulling the plug ... each method has it's pros and cons.

Does that make sense ???

This summer HAS been ugly at times... wait till we get a good tropical system park itself off the east coast...

Take Care