PFT'er damages A-320

[MJ42]

Well, then, you were stupid. That's fine, it was your decision, but you shouldn't demand that everyone else make the same mistakes you did.

You make no sense at all! How was my honorable career path stupid? You still haven't answered why you think PCL now condemns PFT...

 

[MJ42]

But they are taking "unfair" advantage of the fact that they had more money than the pilot who had to work full-time to afford flight training.

I know lots of pilots who had the money but did not lower themselves to the PFT level. I also met guys who did not have the money, yet went into debt to get ahead of fellow pilots. Again, you prove your ignorance !

 

[414Flyer]

But they are taking "unfair" advantage of the fact that they had more money than the pilot who had to work full-time to afford flight training.

No, you cant equate working hard to success, as being the same thing as PFT. Hard work is honorable, a sign of integrity, its what built this country.

PFT is just looking for a shortcut, not by ability and hard work, but by handing over money for a job.

Answer this. Would the pilot community as whole, be better off if nobody would PFT?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I lived it jacka$$, I was one of those affected. I chose to flight instruct, then 135 then ANG therefore bypassing all those PFT idiots. YOU'RE THE ONE WITHOUT A CLUE! I did things the right way!

This issue is about experience vs credit rating. When I started flying for money the jobs and demands were expanded as experience was built. If you were lax or careless, violation or accidents were almost a certainty. I personally know of more pilots than I care to count, who "got violated" or worse, dead, for whatever reason. As I progressed through the industry these people were selected out and moved into other careers or graves. Enter PFT, if your credit rating allows it, you can go from almost "0" time to right seat of a sophisticated(semi for the Beech), aircraft. The selection process for success/survival is eliminated by virtue of a Visa card, in essence a percentage of the PFTers are people who would have been selected out of the industry due to their lack of skills, ability or just common sense. Notice I didn't say all, just a percentage. When I was hired into the airline industry, I had 1000 hours of BE99 135 self dispatched freight time and almost 3200hrs of flight time total, the very fact that I was there and alive and with certificates unsullied by the FAA meant I did it right enough to stay alive, and as such a known commodity. I regularly fly with "young" pilots who have never taxied on snow, had to deal with ice, weird companies who want you to take insane chances to deliver their freight, in clapped out rolling dumpsters they call planes. I guess its about experience, "plane" and simple, and guess what you can't buy that, with or with out a Visa card. The best times I have ever had flying were not in the cockpit of an airliner, GA was the most fun/interesting by the way.
PBR

 

[Nindiri]

No, you cant equate working hard to success, as being the same thing as PFT. Hard work is honorable, a sign of integrity, its what built this country.

PFT is just looking for a shortcut, not by ability and hard work, but by handing over money for a job.

No, it's the same. In both cases, one pilot is using their parents' money to jump ahead of the pilot that had to work full-time to afford training.

Answer this. Would the pilot community as whole, be better off if nobody would PFT?

That depends. What are we giving up in the contract to get rid of the PFT requirement?

 

[ALIMBO]

This issue is about experience vs credit rating. When I started flying for money the jobs and demands were expanded as experience was built. If you were lax or careless, violation or accidents were almost a certainty. I personally know of more pilots than I care to count, who "got violated" or worse, dead, for whatever reason. As I progressed through the industry these people were selected out and moved into other careers or graves. Enter PFT, if your credit rating allows it, you can go from almost "0" time to right seat of a sophisticated(semi for the Beech), aircraft. The selection process for success/survival is eliminated by virtue of a Visa card, in essence a percentage of the PFTers are people who would have been selected out of the industry due to their lack of skills, ability or just common sense. Notice I didn't say all, just a percentage. When I was hired into the airline industry, I had 1000 hours of BE99 135 self dispatched freight time and almost 3200hrs of flight time total, the very fact that I was there and alive and with certificates unsullied by the FAA meant I did it right enough to stay alive, and as such a known commodity. I regularly fly with "young" pilots who have never taxied on snow, had to deal with ice, weird companies who want you to take insane chances to deliver their freight, in clapped out rolling dumpsters they call planes. I guess its about experience, "plane" and simple, and guess what you can't buy that, with or with out a Visa card. The best times I have ever had flying were not in the cockpit of an airliner, GA was the most fun/interesting by the way.
PBR

Like talking about yourself huh?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Like talking about yourself huh?

When you have actually worked an airplane, you can call yourself a working pilot, until then, you are a paperboy. You don't have any experience, so the explanation about it baffles you, that's ok, the world needs paperboys and dish washers too(your future)!
PBR

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Back when COEX was PFT, I recall that minimums were higher for those who didn't have to PFT vs. those who had.

IOWs, if you had less time, you could get hired, contingent upon your handing over ~ $10K vs. non-PFT hiring minimums which were much higher.

Now, does any of that make sense?


If no one PFT'ed for a salaried FO position, then that positon would be available for compensation to a qualified pilot. By PFTing, you reduce the available entry level jobs for pilots with competent qualifications and put the person who can afford to (many times due to lack of skill and TT) ahead of those who earned the right through experience building operations.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=104308&page=2

#18

.
My license was suspended for driving my crashpad car without insurance. Didn't cause any problems for my career.

Of course not, just buy your way out!

Anybody need more evidence about PCL128s judgement ?
PBR

 

[MJ42]

Back when COEX was PFT, I recall that minimums were higher for those who didn't have to PFT vs. those who had.

IOWs, if you had less time, you could get hired, contingent upon your handing over ~ $10K vs. non-PFT hiring minimums which were much higher.

Now, does any of that make sense?


If no one PFT'ed for a salaried FO position, then that positon would be available for compensation to a qualified pilot. By PFTing, you reduce the available entry level jobs for pilots with competent qualifications and put the person who can afford to (many times due to lack of skill and TT) ahead of those who earned the right through experience building operations.

EXACTLY!!! Good post!

 

[MJ42]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=104308&page=2

#18

.
My license was suspended for driving my crashpad car without insurance. Didn't cause any problems for my career.


Anybody need more evidence about PCL128s judgement?
PBR

Good catch. I posted earlier, it shows (lack of) character and personal responsibility. Everyone makes mistakes, but if given the chance, I think these kind of people will (again) make decisions that screw everyone else. And, the funny thing is, they will continue to lecture others about morals within the industry..

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Good catch. I posted earlier, it shows (lack of) character and personal responsibility. Everyone makes mistakes, but if given the chance, I think these kind of people will (again) make decisions that screw everyone else.

Rules and laws are just that, you may not like them or even believe in them but you are obligated to follow them anyway. Flagrant disregard for speedlimits or insurance requirements shows society what you think about the law and how it applies to you. For a company to hand the Captain the keys to a multi million dollar A/C and the lives of the passengers inside requires a leap of faith on their part that you are gonna go the right thing, when no one is looking(at that uncontrolled airport, at mins, on the last approach before going home ect., at 35000ft repositioning the A/C(peenukle) and numerous other situations that require the personal integrety to make decisions that are within the FARs, SOP and most important, safety threshold.). Bottom line what you do when someone(cops, FAA, checkairman) is watching is less important than what you do when no one is watching.
PBR

 

[Nindiri]

Flight instructing and 135 freight ops is great experience if you want to make a career flight instructing or flying freight 135. But if you want to be an airline pilot then you need to be gaining experience flying airliners, and it would be foolish of a young pilot to pass on a great opportunity because it didn't exactly fit our idea of the "traditional" route or involve "paying your dues". I'm not criticizing flight instructing, it's actually quite fun, but it doesn't prepare you to fly jets in scheduled ops. And if some masochist enjoys "paying their dues" by risking their life and tickets flying freight all night in a Baron, that's cool too, it's their life. But they shouldn't judge somebody else for taking advantage of an opportunity to go straight into an airliner.

I went the traditional route of instructing and corporate flying because that was the only way at the time. But if some kid has the opportunity to get that first airline senority number a few years earlier, I say more power to him.

 

[ALIMBO]

Please go back and see the type of crap PBR likes to spew about me and you will see why I say what I do about me.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Like talking about yourself huh?

I don't get you, dude. He's relating his experience and how he came up through the ranks of aviation. His post is far from boasting or egotistical. Why make such an anti-social comment?

Sometimes you seem like a live wire around here. You shouldn't take so much offense. Everyone starting out feels insecure and unknowledgeable. You should present a more humble side instead of challenging folks who've been there, done that and wear the t-shirt.

Perhaps you misunderstood his intentions. I dunno.

Aviation is a small world and a lot of what you say here (as much as you claim to be messing around) will end up biting you one day when you least expect it. People won't forget who you are and what your background is. I'm sure some of them know who you are already based upon your program. The reason a lot of these guys speak the way they do is born out of experience, not heresay. They've earned the right to be a little gruff with young, novice pilots. Perhaps one day you'll be older with a book full of hours and can relate.

Also, it was you who held himself out as a paperboy in another thread. His mention of it was not an off-the-cuff remark belittling you.

 

[ALIMBO]

Amish I get ya but his remark was to belittle me. When it comes to young novice pilots I can tell you that when I do have the years of experience in I wont be a di*k for no reason just because I'm some old fart with a lot of knowledge. Thats just not right. I can just as easily make a new account and act like some new person and no one would ever know. But, you don't see me doing that because thats not the type of person I am. Fact is PBR and Avbug are tools.

 

[ALIMBO]

Sometimes you seem like a live wire around here. You shouldn't take so much offense. Everyone starting out feels insecure and unknowledgeable. You should present a more humble side instead of challenging folks who've been there, done that and wear the t-shirt.

I hate to say it amish but being there and getting the tshirt is no longer a valid comment. Think about it in the times of rich mommy and daddy paying for it you can PFT and get into a jet no problem nowadays. In fact if your even half way good you can be a pilot. Notice how I said half good not great though. The whole being an airline pilot juncture as an excuse to say your good doesn't mean crap.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

I see you're trying to get a guard slot. What unit? Maybe I can give you a recommendation, is it okay to include this thread in my letter, junior?

Dude, relax the Guard needs paperboys and dishwashers too. Although I don't think he could get past the recruiters.
PBR
P.S. He would get the first MOS that specifically precluded any weapons training or use, I think they would issue him a helmet to keep him from bumping his head on the handlebars of his bike.

 

[ALIMBO]

Seems to me that mommy and daddy paid for all your flight costs since it sounds like you've never done a days worth of hard work huh PBR?

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Seems to me that mommy and daddy paid for all your flight costs since it sounds like you've never done a days worth of hard work huh PBR?

Ya know,
You are right, your 300 hours and 2 years of college make you an expert on life and aviation in general. BTW, both my parents were dead before I took my first flight lesson. I only hope you get the opportunity to swing PCL128's gear, you will get along like long lost brothers.
PBR
P.S. funny you mentioned hard work, I worked my way through college,starting as a laborer and ended up a Journeyman Carpenter, paid my own way, and guess what? $0.00 in student loans were taken.