PFT banner tow ripoff

[DavTheViking]

Can you get paid to fly 250 hours in 30 days?

 

[A Squared]

Can you get paid to fly 250 hours in 30 days?

Sure, why wouldn't you?

 

[John2375]

Anyone have any experience w/Aerial Air Force out of Albert Whitted in St. Pete?? I went by there a week or so ago - guy was really nice.. I need a tailwheel endorsement and their only 2-seater was kinda.. well, let's say "dinged up" from a (now former) employee who lost control while trying to land it...he said to check back in a couple months and maybe something will work out.

I'm new to all this, so what's an acceptable pay scale in anyone's opinion?? I'd like to have a ballpark figure in my head so I know if I'm getting shafted or a sweet deal, you know...
John

 

[Steve]

Anyone have any experience w/Aerial Air Force out of Albert Whitted in St. Pete?? I went by there a week or so ago - guy was really nice.. I need a tailwheel endorsement and their only 2-seater was kinda.. well, let's say "dinged up" from a (now former) employee who lost control while trying to land it...he said to check back in a couple months and maybe something will work out.

I'm new to all this, so what's an acceptable pay scale in anyone's opinion?? I'd like to have a ballpark figure in my head so I know if I'm getting shafted or a sweet deal, you know...
John

In the NE the shady places start out at around $20/hr but its only summer work for the most part. Keep in mind that most is done over the beach, and the area isnt cheap to live in. I'd say $15/hr should be what they'd start you at in FL. I know a guy who was making up to $50/hr but has about 1000 towing already.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Take a look at this site (content is a bit dated but still on point): http://www.freewebs.com/stop-aerialmessages/home.htm

Yep, that is Tim Pacinni and he is looking the only endorsement worth anything will be the one he puts on your check when he deposits in he and his wifes bank account. Now there is a legitimate banner two company in Daytonna - Aerial Sign Company - that has been in business for decades and has several dozen aircraft (tailwheel). Aerial messages on the other hand has been investigated by city asnd county authorities on numerous occasions but Tim still manages to run this scam because few are willing to persue the matter but I think the Internet is starting to make it more difficult for him.

Now following 911, I think new regulations require that a banner tow company obtain a waiver - but the waiver is for the company. The local FSDO issues the waiver and may have to be notified when a new pilot is hired. In fact, if you have any questions about Tim's operation, call up the FSDO that has jurisdiction and you can find out about their safety record and you may also get some other helpful or not so helpful information. I think the waiver also defines specific approved geographic areas of operation but again, as far as formal training resulting in an FAA approved/mandated "banner tow endorsement" logbook entry, there is no such thing. As long as the pilot is in the waiver and has satisfied the insurance company's hoop-jumping, there is no reason to pay $2,500!

Although the langauge is vague, seems to me that Tim just indicated in an electronic message that a banner tow endorsement is required for which he will charge you $2,500 to obtain! Reply back and ask him point blank who requires the endorsement and if he indicates that it is the FAA, I suggest you consider contacting the Florida Attorney General and file a consumer fraud report. Of course he will simply back pedal and tell you the endorsement is a requirement for his insurance company and not an FAA but you could also contact the FSDO and let them know about this guys claims about this 'FAA required endorsement! If you really want to make Tim's life interesting, I suggest you consider using the e-mail address from his reply message to register for some adult websites. After that, see if you can lay your hands on one of those Nigerian cashiers checks that are floating around and ask that he deposit the check and then refund the difference! imp:

Ok,

I replied to him this,

Hello, there is no such thing as a banner tow endorsement required by the FAA please provide the FAR! The only way you will get $2,500 from me is if its in the form of a secured training bond like most employers do.


he responded

Sorry to have wasted your time. This endorsement is required under the letter of authorization or also known as a Waiver, and also required by the insurance companies. The letter of authorization is issued from the FAA, so it is as good as a reg. The endorsement goes into your logbook, and is the responsibility of each pilot. There are no guaranties except for the training and endorsement for each pilot who pay's for it. If you want to get the endorsement elsewhere, please do and contact me later.

Tim

 

[Captain Happy]

I worked for Tim with no endorsement in my logbook for almost 2 years parttime. As for the waiver he says he has/needs it may be something his insurance needs but I never saw it, nor did any of the other guys flying at the time96-98. Tim is a friggin used carsalesman. Anything that comes out of his mouth is pure crap. Please, please go somewhere else for your flight time.

Captain Happy

 

[citabriapilot]

I towed banners for an operator in Jacksonville and also had to have an endorsement, although I technically didn't pay for it. The pay to play scam was never mentioned to me until after I started doing some training with the other pilot. He told me if I knew I would be charged 2,000 bucks for the endoresment. I said I hadn't heard anything about it and that I would go elsewhere. I had tailwheel time already and I was an asset to the company, so if he was desperate enough, he'd train me for the sake of having another qualified pilot.

I eventually asked the bossman about paying and he said that most places charge to cover the training. BULLHOCKY! All the training I did was on revenue flights and I flew ONE solo flight for about a half hour picking up ropes. No out of pocket expenses for the operator, its all a scam to make profit off of unsuspecting and naive pilots.

Anyways, my "deal" with the operator was that I'd have to fly traffic watch for 200 hours at a 10 dollar an hour credit to pay for the endorsement. I accepted only because it was extra flying that I didn't expect to have, and I don't think I actually even flew that time off.

Stay away from any operator trying to rip you off with an endorsement. It is a requirement by the FSDO, but it shouldn't cost you money.

 

[FR8mastr]

I also flew banners in FL and had to demonstrate picking up and dropping banners, and emergency drops in front of a FED. The fed then signed my logbook for the waiver. Also the size of the banner is noted IE how many letters. this amount of letters singed off on becomes your official limit on how big a banner you can tow. This was all back in 89

 

[citabriapilot]

Come to think of it... I was supposed to have a FED come out and observe my pickups and drops, as well as look over the banner endorsement paperwork/waiver stuff. He came late and decided he just needed to see the paperwork and didn't watch any operations. This was in 2004.

 

[handlesaregay]

I can't believe after all these years that s-o-b is still running this scam and someone hasn't beat the crap out of him (yet). I guess most pilots are just too law abiding or too smart to risk getting arrested over a piece of scum like that. I fantasized about several revenge scenarios like ******************User Edited************************ but I figured the cops would have a pretty short list of suspects and a scumbag like that just wasn't worth the jail time.

Seriously though I think Tim's honed this scam to a science. I think the whole game is not to get the $2500 but the initial $1000 deposit. After you fight with him over the refund eventually he'll give in and let you have your $1500 back while keeping the so called "deposit" (geez man you're breakin my balls here) lol You feel like you've won by getting a partial refund while he is laughing all the way to the bank with the thousand bucks he just scammed from you. I am floored by the fact that he's been running this scam right out in the open for years and no one seems to be able to do much to stop him.

To the guy who used to work there: you're coming on like an unwitting victim when in reality you were sort of an accomplice weren't you? Not slamming you or anything I don't know what you did when you were there, maybe all you did was tow banners, but if you had anything to do with the training program than you were an accomplice. If you didn't fly with the "trainees" I apologize, but if you were one of the cfi's he had working for him you were as much a part of the fraud as Tim was. That said the couple of instructors I met there during that time period of the mid 90s seemed like decent enough guys who were caught in the middle, but that still doesn't excuse enabling someone to commit fraud against hundreds (if not thousands) of fellow pilots. Everyone I met who worked there knew what the score was, Tim doesn't do any of the flying he's just a salesman, without the CFIs he has working for him he is nothing. Maybe that's what we need to do is focus on the CFI/accomplices he has instead of focusing entirely on Tim which has never worked. Just my humble opinion. Maybe we can shame the guys he has helping him into not participating in this scam?

 

[nikoz1200]

The company I towed for in St Pete was nothing like this tool. Training was 60 bucks an hour wet, instructor included. When you and the instructor were happy with your performance, the training was over, and you started flying. I think it took me like 3 hours max since I had tailwheel experience already. That's how it should be and I wouldn't want to work for someone who tries to milk you dry like that.

Another guy to stay away from in the Tampa area is FAA-Florida Aerial Advertising...

 

[ms6073]

Maybe that's what we need to do is focus on the CFI/accomplices he has instead of focusing entirely on Tim which has never worked. Just my humble opinion.

Probably a good idea as I have gotten the impression that due to past litigation, Tim's wife's name is the one on the company's operating certificate which typically keeps Tim out of hot water. You know a quick search of the Airman database returned one hit for the name Pacini in the state of Florida and I don't think the data returned is for our guy as the data indicates an ATP issued in 2002 with G-1129, G-V, and LRJT types! So I would conclude that either he maintains a mailing address residence outside the state of Florida which seems kind of peculiar since he both lives and works in state or that Tim is not a licensed pilot.

 

[SiuDude]

From public records:

Tim Pacini, born in '64 was arrested for 2 felonies in 1999 and 2000.
One was for [SIZE=-1]Criminal use of personal identification information.The other was for a scheme to defraud (under $20,000).

Both where either "[/SIZE]Nolle Prosequi" or dismissed.

 

[joe_pilot]

Unfortunately, that is not true:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20041123X01861&key=1

Yup, the pilot was a good friend of mine. Stay away from Aerial Messages.

 

[Big Dog]

http://www.clerk.org/

Go down to Public Records & then Case Inquiry. Type in a name and accept. Type in Pacini in the Litigant last name and search. Look at all the cases he, his wife and his brother have had against them. You've gotta love the internet.

You also have to know the Volusia County is one of the shadiest on God's green Earth when it owns the address www.clerk.org