PFT banner tow ripoff

[Steve]

Just found this posting on the web

http://www.aerialmessages.com/employment.html

He claims the average banner tow pilot fly's 100-250 hours a month.

 

[country]

Don't know if this is the same outfit but, I do remember about 5 or 6 years ago there was some guy down that way charging for a banner tow endoresment...yeah right...go look that up in the FAR's....and promising a job once the "endoresment" was given. Once you had this "endoresment" walla!! no flying to be done....we don't need you ...business is slow...sorry your out about 2k.

 

[CDogg]

I can believe it. I flew banners in Florida for this past summer and was logging 6-8 hours/day 7 days a week for 3 months solid. It is possible... the days were long, hot, slow, and after a few hours you wish wou would have put more songs on the mp3 player.

 

[ms6073]

Try a forum search for the name "Tim Pacini" and I think you will get a pretty good idea of what this guy at Aerial Messages is up to. Down and dirty, while a tail wheel endorsement is required if the company uses tail draggers, but if a company is in the business of towning banners and hire someone as a pilot, assuming that pilot already has a tail wheel endorsment, they are not likely to charge $2000-$3000 for a non-existant logbook endorsement! Unless of course the true source of revenue is conning pilots into paying for said endorsement and not towing banners.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I e-mailed the guy, this was his response!


--------------------------------------


Thanks for the interest. our flying is mostly coastal, and centered here in Daytona Beach. I can help you find lodging with a roomate here in Daytona if interested. You do need a banner tow endorsement, and the training takes a full week. The fee is 2500 dollars and includes all flight, ground, orals, checkride, endorsement, and overflight. Upon completion work is availble. I need to get a few pilots in place after the first of the year to train and fly before Feb 1st. If interested, please let me know as soon as possible.

Tim

 

[ms6073]

I e-mailed the guy, this was his response!

--------------------------------------

You do need a banner tow endorsement...

Take a look at this site (content is a bit dated but still on point): http://www.freewebs.com/stop-aerialmessages/home.htm

Yep, that is Tim Pacinni and he is looking the only endorsement worth anything will be the one he puts on your check when he deposits in he and his wifes bank account. Now there is a legitimate banner two company in Daytonna - Aerial Sign Company - that has been in business for decades and has several dozen aircraft (tailwheel). Aerial messages on the other hand has been investigated by city asnd county authorities on numerous occasions but Tim still manages to run this scam because few are willing to persue the matter but I think the Internet is starting to make it more difficult for him.

Now following 911, I think new regulations require that a banner tow company obtain a waiver - but the waiver is for the company. The local FSDO issues the waiver and may have to be notified when a new pilot is hired. In fact, if you have any questions about Tim's operation, call up the FSDO that has jurisdiction and you can find out about their safety record and you may also get some other helpful or not so helpful information. I think the waiver also defines specific approved geographic areas of operation but again, as far as formal training resulting in an FAA approved/mandated "banner tow endorsement" logbook entry, there is no such thing. As long as the pilot is in the waiver and has satisfied the insurance company's hoop-jumping, there is no reason to pay $2,500!

Although the langauge is vague, seems to me that Tim just indicated in an electronic message that a banner tow endorsement is required for which he will charge you $2,500 to obtain! Reply back and ask him point blank who requires the endorsement and if he indicates that it is the FAA, I suggest you consider contacting the Florida Attorney General and file a consumer fraud report. Of course he will simply back pedal and tell you the endorsement is a requirement for his insurance company and not an FAA but you could also contact the FSDO and let them know about this guys claims about this 'FAA required endorsement! If you really want to make Tim's life interesting, I suggest you consider using the e-mail address from his reply message to register for some adult websites. After that, see if you can lay your hands on one of those Nigerian cashiers checks that are floating around and ask that he deposit the check and then refund the difference! imp:

 

[Captain Happy]

Hey I worked for Tim in 97-98. Scariest friggin flying I have ever done and I was an Army Helo pilot. All of the airplanes that he had then have been crashed since and yet somehow, to the best of my knowledge, noone has died. Stay the f#ck away from this Jacka$$. He will have you doing things unlike anything you have ever dreamed of. I once flew( yeah i know it was stupid) with one mag not working for 4 hours over the Daytona 500. Please, please be smarter than I and find your flight time else where.

Just some HUMBLE advise from one who has done it.

Captain Happy

 

[ms6073]

Hey I worked for Tim in 97-98. Scariest friggin flying I have ever done and I was an Army Helo pilot.

Now that is scary - someone who actually got employment out of Pacini after forking over for the 'banner tow' endorsement as you are definitely in the minority!

 

[Captain Happy]

Scarier is that he needed pilots so bad he waived the fee, just took it out of my pay. So the first 150 hours was free. Better than paying and gettin the heaveho but still scary days.

 

[A Squared]

All of the airplanes that he had then have been crashed since and yet somehow, to the best of my knowledge, noone has died.

Unfortunately, that is not true:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20041123X01861&key=1

 

[country]

Read the full narrative.

How is this place still in business??? The FAA should be on this guy like glue watching every move he makes. This just sickens me to think two innocent people died flying for this outfit.

You low time pilots looking to build time or get that first job .....please please stop and make sure your prospective flying job passes the smell test. If your gut says its bad then chances are it is. Ask around and do your homework. There are a few operators out there that will take advantage of the eager....stand your ground and look for something better/safer.

 

[Captain Happy]

That news just ruined my night. I always knew that someone would eventually die, just hoped i would be wrong.

 

[A Squared]

That news just ruined my night. I always knew that someone would eventually die, just hoped i would be wrong.

Sorry, wasn't my intent to bring you down, but I did want it known by the readers that Tim is directly responsible for deaths due to inadequate Mx. That's not Aerial Messages first fatality. There was a fatal crash back in 1989, but that was more pilot error, stalled in a low altitude, low speed turn with a banner.

 

[Captain Happy]

If its the plane i think it was its the same one i flew with one mag out
He bought it sight unseen and it had lots of corrosion, real pies=ce of crap. SUCKS that he is still alive himself

 

[Vik]

The Internet levels the playing field. I wish more people would do research on the net and see this scam.

 

[DavTheViking]

Can you get paid to fly 250 hours in 30 days?

 

[A Squared]

Can you get paid to fly 250 hours in 30 days?

Sure, why wouldn't you?

 

[John2375]

Anyone have any experience w/Aerial Air Force out of Albert Whitted in St. Pete?? I went by there a week or so ago - guy was really nice.. I need a tailwheel endorsement and their only 2-seater was kinda.. well, let's say "dinged up" from a (now former) employee who lost control while trying to land it...he said to check back in a couple months and maybe something will work out.

I'm new to all this, so what's an acceptable pay scale in anyone's opinion?? I'd like to have a ballpark figure in my head so I know if I'm getting shafted or a sweet deal, you know...
John

 

[Steve]

Anyone have any experience w/Aerial Air Force out of Albert Whitted in St. Pete?? I went by there a week or so ago - guy was really nice.. I need a tailwheel endorsement and their only 2-seater was kinda.. well, let's say "dinged up" from a (now former) employee who lost control while trying to land it...he said to check back in a couple months and maybe something will work out.

I'm new to all this, so what's an acceptable pay scale in anyone's opinion?? I'd like to have a ballpark figure in my head so I know if I'm getting shafted or a sweet deal, you know...
John

In the NE the shady places start out at around $20/hr but its only summer work for the most part. Keep in mind that most is done over the beach, and the area isnt cheap to live in. I'd say $15/hr should be what they'd start you at in FL. I know a guy who was making up to $50/hr but has about 1000 towing already.

 

[NW_Pilot]

Take a look at this site (content is a bit dated but still on point): http://www.freewebs.com/stop-aerialmessages/home.htm

Yep, that is Tim Pacinni and he is looking the only endorsement worth anything will be the one he puts on your check when he deposits in he and his wifes bank account. Now there is a legitimate banner two company in Daytonna - Aerial Sign Company - that has been in business for decades and has several dozen aircraft (tailwheel). Aerial messages on the other hand has been investigated by city asnd county authorities on numerous occasions but Tim still manages to run this scam because few are willing to persue the matter but I think the Internet is starting to make it more difficult for him.

Now following 911, I think new regulations require that a banner tow company obtain a waiver - but the waiver is for the company. The local FSDO issues the waiver and may have to be notified when a new pilot is hired. In fact, if you have any questions about Tim's operation, call up the FSDO that has jurisdiction and you can find out about their safety record and you may also get some other helpful or not so helpful information. I think the waiver also defines specific approved geographic areas of operation but again, as far as formal training resulting in an FAA approved/mandated "banner tow endorsement" logbook entry, there is no such thing. As long as the pilot is in the waiver and has satisfied the insurance company's hoop-jumping, there is no reason to pay $2,500!

Although the langauge is vague, seems to me that Tim just indicated in an electronic message that a banner tow endorsement is required for which he will charge you $2,500 to obtain! Reply back and ask him point blank who requires the endorsement and if he indicates that it is the FAA, I suggest you consider contacting the Florida Attorney General and file a consumer fraud report. Of course he will simply back pedal and tell you the endorsement is a requirement for his insurance company and not an FAA but you could also contact the FSDO and let them know about this guys claims about this 'FAA required endorsement! If you really want to make Tim's life interesting, I suggest you consider using the e-mail address from his reply message to register for some adult websites. After that, see if you can lay your hands on one of those Nigerian cashiers checks that are floating around and ask that he deposit the check and then refund the difference! imp:

Ok,

I replied to him this,

Hello, there is no such thing as a banner tow endorsement required by the FAA please provide the FAR! The only way you will get $2,500 from me is if its in the form of a secured training bond like most employers do.


he responded

Sorry to have wasted your time. This endorsement is required under the letter of authorization or also known as a Waiver, and also required by the insurance companies. The letter of authorization is issued from the FAA, so it is as good as a reg. The endorsement goes into your logbook, and is the responsibility of each pilot. There are no guaranties except for the training and endorsement for each pilot who pay's for it. If you want to get the endorsement elsewhere, please do and contact me later.

Tim