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PFT Airlines
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PFT is often in the eye of the beholder. Is SWA PFT because they require a 737 type?
Anyways, I imagine few would argue that Gulfstream and Colgan are truly, hands-down-no-argument PFT. Gulfstream you have to pay to go through their flight school and are only guaranteed 250 hours of right seat time flying the line.
Colgan has a 18K training contract and from what others have said on the board, are currently only hiring from two flight schools - TAB and RAA.
Others? Well Pinnacle doesn't pay during training.
I think there may be a couple others out that also have training contracts.
Anyways, I imagine few would argue that Gulfstream and Colgan are truly, hands-down-no-argument PFT. Gulfstream you have to pay to go through their flight school and are only guaranteed 250 hours of right seat time flying the line.
Colgan has a 18K training contract and from what others have said on the board, are currently only hiring from two flight schools - TAB and RAA.
Others? Well Pinnacle doesn't pay during training.
I think there may be a couple others out that also have training contracts.
Chautauqua?
I would like verification on the two year training contract required for new hires at Chautauqua. My understanding is that new hires with less than 2500TT must repay a $10,000 "training cost" in monthly installments upon completion of their checkride. Furthermore, should the new hire wash out or quit, the new hire would be responsible for the entire sum immediately.
The days are getting darker out there. I think I am reliving 1994!
I would like verification on the two year training contract required for new hires at Chautauqua. My understanding is that new hires with less than 2500TT must repay a $10,000 "training cost" in monthly installments upon completion of their checkride. Furthermore, should the new hire wash out or quit, the new hire would be responsible for the entire sum immediately.
The days are getting darker out there. I think I am reliving 1994!
kevdog
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Pinnacle takes gulfstream PFT grads, right?
I thought Chautauqua only had a training cost if you bail on the 2 year contract with less than 2,500 hours when you are hired.
is Comair quasi-PFT?
I don't really care too much, if someone wants to spend 60-90K for a 18K/year job...go for it!
...just my 80,000,000 cents opinion
I thought Chautauqua only had a training cost if you bail on the 2 year contract with less than 2,500 hours when you are hired.
is Comair quasi-PFT?
I don't really care too much, if someone wants to spend 60-90K for a 18K/year job...go for it!
...just my 80,000,000 cents opinion
DrinkSweetTea
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climbhappy
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PFT
When I was at colgan, they required new hires to sign a 12k training contract to recoup their sim costs, etc. This was even done at CC Air for 7k in the late 90's. Many left the company and laughed when they sent a bill for the balance that was reduced by 1000/month.
In my view, the success of Euor and Asain carriers doing ab intitio successfully has and did set the stage for all these American carriers to accept it and take the money. Its the real reason the bar has lowered.
When I was at colgan, they required new hires to sign a 12k training contract to recoup their sim costs, etc. This was even done at CC Air for 7k in the late 90's. Many left the company and laughed when they sent a bill for the balance that was reduced by 1000/month.
In my view, the success of Euor and Asain carriers doing ab intitio successfully has and did set the stage for all these American carriers to accept it and take the money. Its the real reason the bar has lowered.
climbhappy
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from what I've seen, Magistrate is 1000 or less; civil district is 1000 to 10000; superior is more than ten grand.
if you sign the deal, they can report you and if they're really prics;
then they could sue you, then get a default judgment, (uncontested), summary judgment if you reply and decision goes against you. Either way, if you don't have it, it will be an outstanding judgment against when you go to buy that first house!
if you sign the deal, they can report you and if they're really prics;
then they could sue you, then get a default judgment, (uncontested), summary judgment if you reply and decision goes against you. Either way, if you don't have it, it will be an outstanding judgment against when you go to buy that first house!
norskman2 said:
SWA is not PFT, since SWA does not require that you attend a SWA designated school to pay for your training. The 737 type is just another requirement for the job, like having an ATP or a Lear type for a Lear corporate job. No one cares where you get it, just so long as you have it. On the other hand, the CMR Academy, did require that hopeful applicants open their check books and purchase their training from CMR in return for a job. Now that is PFT.
Flyairjason
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A little bit o' rithmotic...
If you're thinking about flying for Colgan Air, or any other PFT carrier, consider this...
My first year of employment with Colgan yielded around $14,000.00. Now, they didn't have PFT when I got the job, but had they, I would have not only underwritten their cost of doing business (and we all know what that does for our brother and sister pilots, as well as the integrity of our profession), but I would still owe somebody, somewhere about four grand. By the way, these figures are by no means a scientific analysis, but they were derived by calculating a zero consumption factor, i.e., no food, rent or beer. And if you've ever spent a summer on the cape with Chper, Mung, Gategirl and likes of that crew, well then you know that welching on a round of beers calls for a hazing.
So, don't be a punka$$. Don't PFT!
Paid for by friends against PFT... Remember friends don't let friends PFT... Or else.
Jason
If you're thinking about flying for Colgan Air, or any other PFT carrier, consider this...
My first year of employment with Colgan yielded around $14,000.00. Now, they didn't have PFT when I got the job, but had they, I would have not only underwritten their cost of doing business (and we all know what that does for our brother and sister pilots, as well as the integrity of our profession), but I would still owe somebody, somewhere about four grand. By the way, these figures are by no means a scientific analysis, but they were derived by calculating a zero consumption factor, i.e., no food, rent or beer. And if you've ever spent a summer on the cape with Chper, Mung, Gategirl and likes of that crew, well then you know that welching on a round of beers calls for a hazing.
So, don't be a punka$$. Don't PFT!
Paid for by friends against PFT... Remember friends don't let friends PFT... Or else.
Jason
h25b
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for what its worth, i left CHQ in 2000 after one year and not one word was mentioned about the training contract. i never heard of anyone being held to it there. they've got bigger fish to fry than my 5000 bucks.
times may have changed though who knows. i have a funny feeling it might depend on individual circumstances though....
times may have changed though who knows. i have a funny feeling it might depend on individual circumstances though....
QuietBirdMan
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How does Ab-Intio drive training costs up and encourage pay for training?
My wife went through an astronaut like selection process for KLM, was accepted to the school. 3 years of education, cost 90K euros. That works out to 30k a year, just like going to a private university. When she graduated, she went into the KLM hiring pool. When hired, she starts at about 32 a year, jumping to about 50 the second and the usual Major pay scale increases from there. KLM Academy is the only way into KLM, unless you fly an F-16 in the RNAF. I dont see how this drives PFT costs in the US. This is a flight school that leads to a job with a major airline.
If you are talking about Ryanair, who only ask on the interview when you are going to come up with the money (30k for Type rating, 15k for IOE and you pay for your own per diem/hotel during IOE) then I agree. I just cannot agree that a Major airline in Europe or Asia drives PFT in the US.
My wife went through an astronaut like selection process for KLM, was accepted to the school. 3 years of education, cost 90K euros. That works out to 30k a year, just like going to a private university. When she graduated, she went into the KLM hiring pool. When hired, she starts at about 32 a year, jumping to about 50 the second and the usual Major pay scale increases from there. KLM Academy is the only way into KLM, unless you fly an F-16 in the RNAF. I dont see how this drives PFT costs in the US. This is a flight school that leads to a job with a major airline.
If you are talking about Ryanair, who only ask on the interview when you are going to come up with the money (30k for Type rating, 15k for IOE and you pay for your own per diem/hotel during IOE) then I agree. I just cannot agree that a Major airline in Europe or Asia drives PFT in the US.
climbhappy
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quiet bird man,
i think Ab initio drives the PFT engine by virtue of the success rate of low timers and zero timers going from 152 or similar to a 757 or bigger. the concept works but it has caused quite a stir in these parts.........the problem is i don't think any real screening in done to get the top candidates, but rather, since the top candidates most likely realized this career ambition sooner and/or are enroled in college programs, the quality of the candidates is relegated to the balance in their checkbook....in other words,
"Have checkbook, will fly airplanes!"
i think Ab initio drives the PFT engine by virtue of the success rate of low timers and zero timers going from 152 or similar to a 757 or bigger. the concept works but it has caused quite a stir in these parts.........the problem is i don't think any real screening in done to get the top candidates, but rather, since the top candidates most likely realized this career ambition sooner and/or are enroled in college programs, the quality of the candidates is relegated to the balance in their checkbook....in other words,
"Have checkbook, will fly airplanes!"
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