Petition the Air Force Tanker Contract

[AirBadger]

Doesn't the 777 compete with the A340? Perhaps the 777 would be too big, but the 767 too small and the A330 fit that niche. Boeing as far as I know doesn't have a 777 tanker plan anyway.

 

[erj-145mech]

From what I've been reading, it sounds like the Air Force wanted something larger than the 767 but neglected to inform Boeing of this.

They were, it was in the RFP, request for proposal. I guess that Boeing figured that the 76 airframe fit the bill, and that they didn't want to develop an aircraft that fulfilled all aspects of the RFP. The original RFP, the one that was cancelled, was taylor made to fit the 767's capabilities. The Government revised the RFP to expand the mission requirements, and the 777 is too large to operate at some of the airfields that the KC-45A will be at.

 

[popgoesbubble]

Boeing Could/Should have proposed the 767-300/400. I personally think Boeing thought that this contract was in the "Bag" and went cheap with the 767-200 series as it was already being built for the Air forces of Japan (6) and Italy (6) From what I have read and heard the 767 offers little improvements over the KC135R and KC10 in terms of cargo pallets it can carry while performing the tanker mission.

 

[AirBadger]

Do tankers get extra fuel tanks in the conversion, or does the fuel come directly out of the "stock" tanks?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Personally, I am concerned about the strategic interests of our country. Why rely on parts from a foreign land?

You kidding right?

If you want to fly an airplane that is made in the US with 100% US parts, well then get out your MEAD trapper keeper, tear out a sheet and start folding.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Airbus products are not built as well as Boeing. A friend of mine worked as Mechanic at America West and concurred. When I was based in Denver, Frontier was having a lot of mechanical problems. In the winter, the brakes often locked and didn't permit the tires from rotating. I'm not sure if the 330 has the same problem or not. You get what you pay for.

Despite where the product is built, the profits still go to the parent company. I'd like my tax dollars going to Boeing.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like the Air Force wanted something larger than the 767 but neglected to inform Boeing of this.

The KC-135 has operated & adapted diligently since it entered service in 1957. You can't honestly expect that an Airbus will last 50+ years... unless Airbus offered the USAF a deal like Jet Blue... Forget C checks and we'll give you a sweet deal on a new plane... Personally I buy things that last.

Well, let's see- the A300 was the first widebody aircraft that EADS build. It was launched in 1972. I believe there are still a bunch of them flying around (mostly in Brown and Purple colors). I've double checked all of my fingers and toes, and by my math that's 36 years and going strong. 14 more to go.

 

[Steveair]

A lot can happen in 14 years. 14 years ago the CRJ-200 was a good airplane...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Sounds like this more of national pride than of an understanding of the [MIL] global market place...

 

[414Flyer]

Well, let's see- the A300 was the first widebody aircraft that EADS build. It was launched in 1972. I believe there are still a bunch of them flying around (mostly in Brown and Purple colors). I've double checked all of my fingers and toes, and by my math that's 36 years and going strong. 14 more to go.

Well they are not all 36 years old, most of them are much newer, the most recent one is about 7 months old

The newest KC-135 is 43 years old.

 

[highsky]

Just sent Senator Murray the e-mail bellow:

I was just as shocked as everyone else when the Air Force announced its decision. However, I believe your judgment may be clouded. The Air Force chose the aircraft that best fits its mission and is best suited to defend our country. So, please don't let politics try to sway a change. I would like to see Boeing get to build the tankers here in the US by union workers just like everyone else, but unless they can build the KC-45 under contract, then EADS, Northrop/Grumman must be chosen. The consumer (US Air Force) wants the best product. When you buy a car, you want the best product, whether that’s a Toyota Camry (built in KY) or a Ford Taurus (built in Chicago, IL).
Defense procurement should not be tied to job creation or job protection in any way. The best product should win, no questions asked.
So I ask you to support the Air Force leadership's decision, and not cost the taxpayers more money, by dragging this out any more.

Thank you for your service,

************************

The Germans and Japanese made some pretty formiddable weaponry in WWII.

So, extending your logic, we should have spent much of our WWII defense dollars over there, to get the best product for our taxpayers, right?

WWII, to a great extent, lifted us from a depression, due to all of the domestic spending. In case you haven't noticed, we're staring a looming depression right in the face.

I say we ought to take care of the home team first. I don't care if its not the best product (arguably).

Perhaps you didn't hear...100,000 U.S. auto workers have been laid off in the last two years. That dwarfs U.S. airline pilot layoffs!!!

I buy American first. Are Jap or German electronics or cars better? Perhaps. Does it matter?

What if every American just watched out for himself, and bought the very best that his money could buy, regardless of the economic consequences of his own nation? What if every American tomorrow went out and bought a Honda or Toyota? And no one ever bought another Ford, GM, or Chrysler?

Obviously, this would destroy our economy. Everyone knows it. So why do some people continue to buy foreign? Because they are counting on their neighbors to support the local economy, while they themselves just look after themselves and what's best for THEM. Thank God we don't all feel like that, or we'd ALL be in trouble.

Who do you think is buying all the airline tickets to fly on your shiny jets? It's not the foreigners. Its the American people. It's the blue collar worker and his family. It's the white collar engineer and management professional. It's their families. It's all of the other Americans who live off of all of the money that these people spend...and so on...and so on...and so on...

Do you get it?

All of us Americans are in this together.

Rant over.

P.S. Perhaps Americans would feel much better about buying foreign if we considered the foreign country a true "you got my back ally."

I'd feel differently about buying the new tanker from the U.K. than I will ever feel about giving Germany and France all of this money.

That said, I'm hoping Merkel and, especially, Sarkozy usher in a new relationship for the future. A relationship where we feel more like brothers, and less like distant cousins from great-grandfathers past.

 

[414Flyer]

How come the 777 wasn't in the running?

Because Boeing didnt submit a 777 for the contract as far as I know. Not sure if that would have even fit into the contract specs. But Boeing does have a gripe, maybe legitimately, that the specs were changed in order to benefit Northrop/EADS.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I say we ought to take care of the home team first. I don't care if its not the best product (arguably).

SAID BY THE GUY THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO FLY THE AIRPLANE. Are you serious?

I buy American first. Are Jap or German electronics or cars better? Perhaps. Does it matter?

What if every American just watched out for himself, and bought the very best that his money could buy, regardless of the economic consequences of his own nation? What if every American tomorrow went out and bought a Honda or Toyota? And no one ever bought another Ford, GM, or Chrysler?

Huh? You need to layoff the sauce. Are you typing your posts on an US-made computer? Do you watch TV on a US-made Zenith from 1974? Ever listen to an MP-3 player? Watch a DVD, VHS? Maybe even take digital pictures of those kids of yours?

Well if you do, you are a willing participant of the global economy. It is completely unavoidable. The answer is not for people to buy inferior products -- it's for the American companies to make better products.

BTW -- some Hondas and Toyotas are made in the US. Big Mercedes plant in Alabama even. Those are Americans building them. How does that fit into your Pre-League of Nations isolationist bizarro philosophy?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The Germans and Japanese made some pretty formiddable weaponry in WWII.

So, extending your logic, we should have spent much of our WWII defense dollars over there, to get the best product for our taxpayers, right?

WWII, to a great extent, lifted us from a depression, due to all of the domestic spending. In case you haven't noticed, we're staring a looming depression right in the face.

I say we ought to take care of the home team first. I don't care if its not the best product (arguably).

Perhaps you didn't hear...100,000 U.S. auto workers have been laid off in the last two years. That dwarfs U.S. airline pilot layoffs!!!

I buy American first. Are Jap or German electronics or cars better? Perhaps. Does it matter?

What if every American just watched out for himself, and bought the very best that his money could buy, regardless of the economic consequences of his own nation? What if every American tomorrow went out and bought a Honda or Toyota? And no one ever bought another Ford, GM, or Chrysler?

Obviously, this would destroy our economy. Everyone knows it. So why do some people continue to buy foreign? Because they are counting on their neighbors to support the local economy, while they themselves just look after themselves and what's best for THEM. Thank God we don't all feel like that, or we'd ALL be in trouble.

Who do you think is buying all the airline tickets to fly on your shiny jets? It's not the foreigners. Its the American people. It's the blue collar worker and his family. It's the white collar engineer and management professional. It's their families. It's all of the other Americans who live off of all of the money that these people spend...and so on...and so on...and so on...

Do you get it?

All of us Americans are in this together.

Rant over.

P.S. Perhaps Americans would feel much better about buying foreign if we considered the foreign country a true "you got my back ally."

I'd feel differently about buying the new tanker from the U.K. than I will ever feel about giving Germany and France all of this money.

That said, I'm hoping Merkel and, especially, Sarkozy usher in a new relationship for the future. A relationship where we feel more like brothers, and less like distant cousins from great-grandfathers past.

Sounds like you were drinking PBR with [great] grandpa!

Welcome to the global economy.... If we all bought American then parts of the world would be quite economically depressed... and when people have no money they get pissed and join hate groups and start wars..... oh wait that is the middle east! That is a differentr story..

Why should I buy an American car, when US auto workers are building Toyota's in the CA? BMW's in SC? And The Big Three are building cars in Mexico and Canada....?

 

[TWA]

When you look at which airplane is more durable, has a longer service life, and is more controllable by our pilots, Boeing wins. I will take a Boeing over an airbus any day, I don't want some computer telling me it can do my job better than I can. The level of automation that airbus uses is just plain dangerous in a military environment.

Yes, the A300 did start production in 1972, but ended production less than a year ago. How many are still flying around from 1972?

 

[Schwanker]

Do tankers get extra fuel tanks in the conversion, or does the fuel come directly out of the "stock" tanks?

They add extra tanks. Both the KC-10 and KC-135 have 3 body tanks in addition to the wing tanks. Also, the 135 has an upper deck tank in the aft portion of the fuselage.

Another interesting tidbit is the KC-10s body tanks (which reside in the lower body) required extra framing support structures which resulted in a greater floor load capability than the standard DC-10-30Fs.

Schwanker