Petition the Air Force Tanker Contract

[bagasticks]

Ohh so the petition worked and Boeing is getting the contract now? You are so far smokin' crack if you think the airbus is the best bang for the buck.

do you remember why Boeing didnt close the deal in 2003? ? ? ? Prison sentences, CEO resignations ring a bell. . ? it was Boeing's Contract to lose, and that they did. . . I feel for the workers who made the 767 a reality. The reality is, it will be another 10 years if the petitioning congressmen get their way. The Airbus WILL accomplish the mission and that SHOULD be priority number one. . .

 

[ableone]

I guess the contractor who can whine the loudest should get to build the airplane.

 

[AlbieF15]

As it is now, there are two places where you can build jumbo jets....Everett Washington and Toulouse, France. If the contract goes through--you can then add Mobile, Alabama.

Having another major aircraft construction facility in this country is a good thing. I love Boeing stuff, but A) they were corrupt in their last deal and B) apparently the military likes this other product better. I think the trade off of having a huge, probably union manufacturing site in the US is good for a lot of folks. As mentioned...much of the 787 is being built in China. The French may irritate us, but so far when the chips are down we seem to end up on the same side of the fight. The Chinese, on the other hand...well....

And Mobile is lobbying too. Check this out:

http://www.comebackhometomobile.com/

My take is really that after losing the last War Between the States the South realized it lacked the industrial base to succeed successfully from the Yankee tribes. With a few more defense plants like this one maybe we'll be ready next time....

Obviously I'm joking--but a lot of good points made on both sides on this discussion. Read and get informed...I don't think there is a pure easy answer...

 

[Steveair]

Having a place where they put a refueling probe on the back on an Airbus is hardly an "aircraft manufacturing site." Sounds like a great place to have hurricane damage and have the tax payer / insurance rates foot the bill.

The only mission the Airbus is going to accomplish is hiring more mechanics to work on them when they often break.

 

[ableone]

Having a place where they put a refueling probe on the back on an Airbus is hardly an "aircraft manufacturing site." Sounds like a great place to have hurricane damage and have the tax payer / insurance rates foot the bill.

The only mission the Airbus is going to accomplish is hiring more mechanics to work on them when they often break.

Wow, two completely unfounded statements.

1. With the exception of the first four airframes, the KC-45 will be built on a final assembly line in Mobile. Further EADS has discussed the possibility of assembling civil 330s in Mobile as EADS want to up its US content because of the strong (read expensive) euro.

2. Please back up your "they often break" B.S. I have flown both and the Boeing is no more reliable.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Ohh so the petition worked and Boeing is getting the contract now? You are so far smokin' crack if you think the airbus is the best bang for the buck.

Said by a dude that flies a Canadair Regional Jet.

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Dont believe John Mccain sold us out on this one too... where was he when Halliburton was around?

Oh wait... he doesnt care

 

[erj-145mech]

Having a place where they put a refueling probe on the back on an Airbus is hardly an "aircraft manufacturing site." Sounds like a great place to have hurricane damage and have the tax payer / insurance rates foot the bill.

So now, you're an expert on aeronautical engineering and tanker platforms? So you'd just bolt on a boom and hook up a hose? Does the inside of a B707 look like a KC-135?

Weather patterns are not a primary concern. Lets take "tornado alley" around Wichita. Any region has its own unique weather patterns to deal with. If the DoD has an issue with hurricanes, NAS Kingsville, Corpus Christi, Keesler AFB, Pensacola, Hurlburt, Tyndall, McDill, and Homestead would not exist. And hurricanes have travelled up the eastern seaboard too. That would rule out the Pentagon, Ft Lee, Aberdeen Proving Grounds, Dover AFB, etc.

 

[Oh-ryan]

Ladies, Ladies, Ladies...

Let's put the question of where they are gonna build this thing to rest. March 3rd edition of AW&ST says that assembly of the sixth production airframe and all subsequent airframes will be in Mobile, AL.

Boeing management screwed the pooch on this one back in 03. They are now reaping what they have sewn.

 

[DOVPILOT]

Despite where the product is built, the profits still go to the parent company. I'd like my tax dollars going to Boeing.

That's it in a nutshell, F'k Airbus.

 

[dtfl]

Said by a dude that flies a Canadair Regional Jet.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

That..also..doesnt seem to even have a frickin DOG in this fight.

 

[dtfl]

Lets see if this works...

I'd rather have a US company win this...but I have been in the USAF long enough..and flown enough aircraft with mods....and enough new aircraft to know we don't need crews saying "well..it's a ____ but we wish it worked..or we wish we could do THIS.."
We need them flying the equipment they need to get the job done...well.
Scroll down to page two - spider chart.

http://www.leeham.net/filelib/ScottsColumn030408_2.pdf

 

[Steveair]

Said by a dude that flies a Canadair Regional Jet.

Yep - And I get paid more than a Skybus Captain flying an Airbus. The CRJ is no Boeing but there's no place else to start.

Airbus has destroyed the US Airline industry; giving airplanes to anyone (Independence, Skybus, Jetblue), with easy payment plans and maintenance coverage. It is cheaper for Jetblue to get a new plane than do a C-Check. This allows cheapy carriers with no cost to charge $10 airfares and takes business away from the legacy carriers that pay pilot well.

Can you honestly tell me you want to support a company that is indirectly yet significantly hurting our industry?

 

[Jafo73]

Yep - And I get paid more than a Skybus Captain flying an Airbus. The CRJ is no Boeing but there's no place else to start.

Airbus has destroyed the US Airline industry; giving airplanes to anyone (Independence, Skybus, Jetblue), with easy payment plans and maintenance coverage. It is cheaper for Jetblue to get a new plane than do a C-Check. This allows cheapy carriers with no cost to charge $10 airfares and takes business away from the legacy carriers that pay pilot well.

Can you honestly tell me you want to support a company that is indirectly yet significantly hurting our industry?

Well, considering that Skybus just shut down today, that doesn't really mean much...

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Can you honestly tell me you want to support a company that is indirectly yet significantly hurting our industry?

Archie Bunker -- it's 2008. Get over it. Roger and Me is sooooo 1980s.

If you want to peddle this holier than thou attitude of yours, than go live in a commune in the middle of nowhere and don't purchase ANYTHING.

Competition is good for everyone in every industry.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Well, considering that Skybus just shut down today, that doesn't really mean much...

And pay wasn't the issue -- but then he doesn't get it. BTW, I wouldn't brag about making more than a 65/hr Skybus captain. That WAS a pitiful pay rate.

Thankfully ... I can now say was.

 

[Steveair]

Yeah... there's nothing funny or interesting that I fly 60% less seats and make more.

Dear Friends,​

Thank you for voicing your opinion on my website about the outrageous decision by the Air Force to award a $35 billion contract to European Aeronautic Defence and Space (EADS)/ Northrop Grumman over Boeing to build the next generation of aerial refueling tankers. I hope you find this weeks "Tanker News" update informative.
On Wednesday, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) rejected effort's by the Air Force and Northrop Grumman to have portions of Boeing's Tanker protest bid thrown out. This means the GAO has agreed to look at all aspects of Boeing's protest without pre-maturely dismissing any part of the protest. This is great news and a good step forward.
I will continue to aggressively fight this decision in Congress. I am currently finalizing legislation that will help create a level playing field for American workers and manufacturers.
IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
This week, both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal reported that French Financial Market Regulator, Autorité des Marchés Financiers, has filed a formal complaint and requested a criminal investigation of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS).
You can read the full story in the New York Times by clicking here.
It is clear that EADS cannot be trusted to build KC-X tankers for America – its history confirms this. The United States Air Force has kept America shielded from questionable, and in some cases illegal, activities that EADS and its parent Company Airbus have committed. Because the Department of Defense and the Air Force waived the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and Cost Accounting Standards for foreign competitors, the American public may never know the true extent of illegal activities that our new KC-X Tanker manufacturer has committed. This represents a serious challenge to our national security.
Our American tanker needs to be built by a company we can trust. Our American tanker needs to be built by an American company with American workers.
Also, the Center for Security Policy just released a report, "EADS is Welcome to Compete for US Defense Contracts- But First it Must Clean Up Its Act", that highlights numerous past and present problematic issues that need resolved before EADS should be able to compete for American contracts.
Click here to read this fascinating report by the Center for Security Policy.
REGISTERING YOUR OPINION:
Thank you again for taking time to voice your opinion on my website. Please make sure your family and friends also know how to access the site to register their opinion as well. The more people who voice their disapproval of this Tanker contract decision the more momentum we will gain.

People from all over the United States have been voicing their outrage. As of this morning, more than 72,000 of you indicated you were outraged with the Air Force Tanker decision!
TANKER BLOG:
Be sure to check out the "Tanker Blog" to stay up to date on all the latest Tanker contract actions. Here I will post videos, media interviews, floor speeches, letters to the President, Secretary of Defense, and my Congressional colleagues that express my outrage over this contract.

In addition, if you would like to call the White House to voice your opinion about the Air Force tanker decision the number is 202-456-1111.

 

[Steveair]

And pay wasn't the issue -- but then he doesn't get it. BTW, I wouldn't brag about making more than a 65/hr Skybus captain. That WAS a pitiful pay rate.

Thankfully ... I can now say was.

65K a YEAR. Get your facts right.

 

[414Flyer]

IN CASE YOU MISSED IT
This week, both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal reported that French Financial Market Regulator, Autorité des Marchés Financiers, has filed a formal complaint and requested a criminal investigation of the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company (EADS).
You can read the full story in the New York Times by clicking here.
It is clear that EADS cannot be trusted to build KC-X tankers for America – its history confirms this. The United States Air Force has kept America shielded from questionable, and in some cases illegal, activities that EADS and its parent Company Airbus have committed. Because the Department of Defense and the Air Force waived the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and Cost Accounting Standards for foreign competitors, the American public may never know the true extent of illegal activities that our new KC-X Tanker manufacturer has committed. This represents a serious challenge to our national security.
Our American tanker needs to be built by a company we can trust. Our American tanker needs to be built by an American company with American workers.
Also, the Center for Security Policy just released a report, "EADS is Welcome to Compete for US Defense Contracts- But First it Must Clean Up Its Act", that highlights numerous past and present problematic issues that need resolved before EADS should be able to compete for American contracts.
Click here to read this fascinating report by the Center for Security Policy.

Tell us, what was it Boeing was doing in 2002 that led up to this going to a bidded contract? While I would have preferred that Boeing had put together a winning package to win, their actions in this whole saga have not been exactly above board, so to bring up Airbus misdeeds as a reason they should not get it..well do you see the irony?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

65K a YEAR. Get your facts right.

Typo. I guess, their pay rates aren't on apc anymore.

BTW -- How long have you been serving your country in the military?

 

[Steveair]

Typo. I guess, their pay rates aren't on apc anymore.

BTW -- How long have you been serving your country in the military?

I haven't served but I am a supporter of the military and making sure that is has the best equipment. I'm also a supporter of American jobs and American profit. There is absolutely no possible way that this deal with Airbus results in a greater amount of either.

 

[Oh-ryan]

I haven't served but I am a supporter of the military and making sure that is has the best equipment. I'm also a supporter of American jobs and American profit. There is absolutely no possible way that this deal with Airbus results in a greater amount of either.

That's the biggest problem with this argument. The KC-45 is not a jobs program or some kind of "New Deal" for the economy. It's about replacing a fleet of aircraft with the best option available to ensure our military can meet present a future needs.

 

[bagasticks]

That's the biggest problem with this argument. The KC-45 is not a jobs program or some kind of "New Deal" for the economy. It's about replacing a fleet of aircraft with the best option available to ensure our military can meet present a future needs.

Amen. . .politicians and most civilians appear to be forgetting the critical fact that this is NOT suppose to be an economic stimulus package. . but a deal that ensures our ability to defend the US globally for the next 60yrs. .

 

[KCPilot]

This is just the first of the tankers to be ordered. From what I remember reading a few years ago, the AF wants to replace all 500 or so KC-135 tankers in the next 10-15 years. They have also indicated that one single company could not produce that many aircraft in the alloted time. So you will most likely see a mixed fleet of Scarebus and Boeing. But then again you never know....

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I haven't served ...

I'm sorry ... can you repeat that?

 

[G-force]

Boeing Vs. Airbus

Airbus products are not built as well as Boeing. A friend of mine worked as Mechanic at America West and concurred. When I was based in Denver, Frontier was having a lot of mechanical problems. In the winter, the brakes often locked and didn't permit the tires from rotating. I'm not sure if the 330 has the same problem or not. You get what you pay for.

Despite where the product is built, the profits still go to the parent company. I'd like my tax dollars going to Boeing.

From what I've been reading, it sounds like the Air Force wanted something larger than the 767 but neglected to inform Boeing of this.

The KC-135 has operated & adapted diligently since it entered service in 1957. You can't honestly expect that an Airbus will last 50+ years... unless Airbus offered the USAF a deal like Jet Blue... Forget C checks and we'll give you a sweet deal on a new plane... Personally I buy things that last.

You are exactly right!!!!The US Gov't forgot to talk to the mx people that work on both types,they would have found out that Boeing has the BETTER PRODUCT!!!!!

 

[highsky]

BTW -- How long have you been serving your country in the military?

Does this guy need to have served in the military to be qualified to state an opinion regarding how his tax dollars are spent?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Does this guy need to have served in the military to be qualified to state an opinion regarding how his tax dollars are spent?

No -- you're missing my point (but I do love it when people that have never served, or are currently serving, offer their opinions on this stuff). The only dog he has in this fight is that he's a US taxpayer.

Not once have I even advocated one airplane over the other -- YA KNOW WHY?

Becauser I DON"T FLY TANKERS. Neither does Steve-O. But his holier than thou attitude about all his red-blooded American consumption practices sets me off.

Bottom line -- if the AF gets the best plane, Steve-O needs to let it go.

 

[bssthound]

politicians and most civilians appear to be forgetting the critical fact that this is NOT suppose to be an economic stimulus package. . but a deal that ensures our ability to defend the US globally for the next 60yrs

To most politicians it is an economic stimulus package. If a politician can ensure that the copilot seat's left rail or the 2nd tacan antenna is built in his district then it brings in X # of jobs, translating to 2.5X # of votes, etc. The avg politician is woefully out of touch with the military and isn't nearly as concerned with having the best equipment as he is with procuring the most jobs for his district. Excuse, unless a camera is on him and then he (imagine a somber, serious tone) "couldn't be more concerned with equipping our fighting men and women with the very best equipment available."

I realize I just made a broad generalization and there are many fine folks who DO care; I'm just talking about the average politician who is trying to stay in office.

 

[Dizel8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EM0hDchVlY

I don't care how the autopilot is set up. An airplane should do as it's told. I hope that Airbus changes what their system allows / doesn't allow the pilots to do in a military aircraft.

Maybe, just maybe, you should read the report on that accident as opposed to just conjecturing while looking at pictures. When you have done so, and understand what happened, then let's talk.