People Express comparisons

[tkr-toad]

I have seen JetBlue compared to PE (not in a good way) more than once in threads and am admitting my ignorance on PE's history. Aside from being popular with customers and the media, are there any other parallels between the two (or between PE and any of the other LCCs for that matter)? How many aircraft and cities did they serve compared to JB, AirTran, ATA, etc. would like to know if this is just one of those characterisations like the ValueJet/AirTran smear.

 

[tkr-toad]

Answering my own question

The info may not be totally accurate and anyone can jump in and correct me but here's what a quick web search turned up:

People's Express: almost 80 aircraft (3 types), 22 cities, 4000 employees.

JetBlue (so far): 57 aircraft (accord. to their own site), 28 cities (if you count those this summer), and ??? employees

AirTran (so far): 65 aircraft, 33/45 cities (depending if you count their partners), and ??? employees


So, it seems that size wise, the comparisons aren't too far off. May we learn from the mistakes of old.

 

[jetblue320]

Re: Answering my own question

The info may not be totally accurate and anyone can jump in and correct me but here's what a quick web search turned up:

JetBlue (so far): 57 aircraft (accord. to their own site), 28 cities (if you count those this summer), and ??? employees

The aircraft count is correct and we serve 27 cities. Well, we are selling tickets to 27 cities and will serve them by this summer like you stated. I think our employee count is just over 6000.

If you consider statistics, I would suppose they are similar to PE. Other than that, they couldn't be more different. But that is an insiders opinion. I never worked for PE, but I did fly on them a few times. A few of our top folks were there.

C yaaa

 

[SWA/FO]

Yeah, but people's express did not have a computerized reservation system. JBLU & AirTran does.

 

[AlbieF15]

PE offered a "cheap seat" and nothing to eat. Completely new idea at the time. Low fare also meant "old leased airplanes", "contract maintenance", and a generally safe but unglamorous traveling experience.

Jetblue offers nice new jets, leather seats, awesome service. Additionally, pilots and crews there aren't "waiting for something better" but trying to build their own new brand.

AirTran offers (IMHO) the nicest ride anywhere in the 717 fleet in business class. Service is as good as I've ever gotten in first class on AA, DAL, or NWA. New jets, great service, and again...nobody appears to be in a rush to the exits to other carriers.

I think comparing AT and JB to PE is like comparing a Volkswagen Jetta to a Yugo. Both are small, efficient commuter cars. However, folks LIKE their Jettas. They are sleek, stylish, and (from what I hear) pretty well made little cars that are fun to ride. Yugos were, well...cheap transportation. Simply put, folks would rather fly US Air or Delta than Peoples Express IF they could afford the difference. Now, I think load factors have demonstrated both AT and JB have their own LOYAL customers, who will choose them over other carriers given similar prices and schedules. Need to go to Paris? Well...Delta is where you need to fly. Need to go to Dayton? Orlando? Seems like a lot of people are quite happy skipping the majors to give their business to AT and JB.

Not bashing anyone--just saying I think the QUALITY of the LCC is much better today than in 1981. This is a different situation entirely.

 

[dgs]

Because the comparison is often made between JB & PE, I've done a lot of research on PE. I don't really want to spend a lot of time with their history, but I'll point out a couple of things.

First, PE expected everybody to do more than their primary duty. For example, many pilots did double duty as dispatchers. Not only was it expensive, but it led to a lack of continuity and a lot of disorganization and mistakes. There was a very casual management style throughout the company and an attitude that some have described as encouraging workplace romance/affairs. The end result was an organization that "looked like a bunch of college students trying to run an airline."

Second, the only real benefit they had was incredibly low fares. Because the experience was marginal, as soon as the majors matched the fares, everybody flew the majors instead. That left PE aircraft virtually empty in many markets. With almost no cash flow, they just couldn't survive very long.

Third, they expanded very rapidly but didn't do very good market analysis. As SWA/FO mentioned they did not have a computerized reservation system, but their lack of automation and analysis tools created other problems for them. The majors matched their fares shortly after they bought the big iron for European service. At first the airplanes were full, but when they lost pax and had a heavy debt load that was the end for them.

Rest assured that the leadership at JetBlue has studied PE and many other failed airlines to determine what factors led to their demise. They have also studied the successful airlines, esp. SWA, for best practices. The result is an incredibly well designed company that has learned the best and the worst from those who went before.

 

[tkr-toad]

Thanks for the replies

I was not myself drawing a comparison between PE and the others. But I have read others do so and wanted some facts to substantiate or refute the attempts. I'm sure today's companies are well aware of past missteps and are doing everything they can to avoid repeating them.

 

[tG114]

Customer Service

While in college, February through August 1984, I worked reservations for People Express at the Haynes Avenue building [United] in EWR.

During that time, PE was already flying to London and was adding or had added San Francisco and Los Angeles. Our fleet consisted primarily of Lufthansa's old aircraft, but the customers didn't mind as we were still "new" to them and our fares were dirt cheap.

Used to field calls from Quebec [and other places] for people wanting to fly out of Burlington: $19. peak/$29. off peak one way. Its popularity was very high, but they got slammed as mentioned previously by the competition especially when they left their niche of domestic regional travel.

jetBlue's aircraft are all new but like PE they are based in the NYC metro area. I am wondering if some of their fixed costs [hangars, etc.] will drag them down like I am sure it put pressure on PE.

Other considerations working against jetBlue are Southwest's entry into Philly, Delta's Song and United's Ted, and probably better pricing from American and Continental. I wonder how jetBlue will do in the midst of the battle with more established carriers. My thinking is that customers will win in the short run with exceptional prices, but in the long run company profits will suffer across the board as everyone tries to compete and remain viable.

 

[side stick-n]

tG114,

I believe the answer to some of your questions should have been answered by yesterdays 1st quarter results.

If you remember, AA ran a BIG sale on the day we started service from BOS. Buy 2, get one free. They gave a free ticket to anyone that bought 2 tickets on AA to anywhere JetBlue flies. The freebies were good to ANY AA city, world wide. Soon after, DL offered the same deal. Even after this sale and predatory pricing practice, we still came out with a double digit operating margin (11.3%). That was the first BIG battle we have fought and I think the results indicate that we won in strong fashion. I believe this proves how we will do against the established carriers.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: Answering my own question

Actually, we have at least 75 B717 now, and by the end of the year, we should have 80+ 717 and 12 B737-700.

Cities served? Well, the 717 goes to all of them except SFO. The LAX and LAS 717 flights are out of DFW and a few directs to LAS from places such as MLI and others. Total employees are 5600 and should have over 1000 pilots by the end of the year, with almost half of them hired in the last three and a half years.


I remember hearing that PE actually collected cash from passengers, with agents wearing change-belts.

 

[Hutcha]

How is it that no one is going to mention that Avtar..... Where's the back brace??