Pentagon to triple the number of drones

[JungleJett]

Folks..seriously. Rez has, is, and always will be antimilitary...bordering on anti-American, not because he challenges policy, which is a good thing, but accuses the US of knowingly targeting civilians. He views those that serve with a great amount of disdain and his post prove that. If that UAV saved the lives of 1000 US troops or 100 civilians from an insurgent attack, but killed one civilian, we would all be monsters. He simply cannot see beyond his own hate...it eats at his weak character.

Rez, stick to what you know.......let the men deal with the rest.

 

[SIG600]

Rez... go smoke a joint, sling a gear handle, and let the warriors secure your freedom. Obviously you don't have the capability to stomach the reality that the entire world isn't pink unicorns, hugs, and happiness.

 

[zippy]

No these acts are not acceptable... are the acts committed by the US against innocent civilians acceptable?

If you seriously think that the US is intentionally targeting innocent civilians with UAV attacks then you need to do some more homework and check your sources...

Since you think terrorist flying planes into buildings is unacceptable, and UAV attacks (and other actions) disrupt terrorists in that part of the world and keep them off balance enough to prevent them from planning and executing another event like 9-11 how do you deem that? If the UAV actions and other efforts cease (much like you advocate) and Terrorist become successful in blowing up planes crossing the Atlantic and flying them into buildings again, will that make you happy?

Actually, many of us in the Armed Forces are doing our part to try to bear that burden of responsibility to make the world better for future generations... what have you done to make this country and the world better for future generations?

Actually I don't support war at all. I already gave at the office and my kids aren't available to a society that believes our children are born to die in war.

Let me tell you a little secret... people serving in the military tend not to support war either... because they are the ones that have to fight them. What they do is "support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." The military also does other things besides wage war- Humanitarian relief operations throughout the world (most recently Haiti).

Once again... you seem quick to pass the burden and responsibility of making the world a better place for everyone (already giving at the office), but show no support for them bearing that burden... If think you can do better, then by all means join up and pull your weight.

I hope your children have the ability to make form their own opinions of our society, government military and the world and I hope that your fear mongering hasn't completely distorted their vision.

What don't I understand...???? at the start of this post I agreed that 9/11 and shoe bomber attempts are unacceptable... so now the question becomes are our attacks acceptable....?? Why is what they did unacceptable and what we do acceptable? One could argue that they started it with 9/11, however, I am willing to say thay "they" will say it we started it before 9/11. That is the problem with war... and when does it end?

In this case they are correct... violence in that part of the world has been going on for a very long time. UBL and AQ made their debut in the late 80s and early 90s (further back if you count Egyptian Islamic Jihad prior to the merger of the two groups)... but American's only really started feeling the effects of the group while supporting the UN mission to deliver humanitarian aide in Somolia (Another example of the military trying to help instead of waging war... funny how that works).

Isn't real democracy the ability to question ourselves and our actions? What seems concerning... is not questioning. If we desensitize ourselves or ignore or even refuse to accept the truth, is that really moral? If we want the benefit of victory, as a free society should not also accept the responsibility?

Democracy is the ability to quiestion ourselves and our actions... If I remember correctly you began this thread with a snide remark and not a question...

I truely hope you can rest comfortably knowing that you live under the freedom of a democracy... if you didn't- chances are that you and your family would have already been snatched up and "disappeared" in the middle of the night. Instead you will go to sleep tonight, and wakeup tommorrow free easy decision and to carry out your anti-government, anti-military (and whatever else you believe in) agenda- thanks to the sacrifices and hard decisions that the those who swore an oath (the government) to protect your way of life make every day...

I'm not sure if this has ever crossed your mind- but next time you see a member of the military (in the airport or wherever) say thank you for making your life so easy... you might be surprised with how they react.

 

[FlyinGuy]

The problem with these libs like res is that they do not know how to preserve freedom. Maybe we should be taking the WWII approach to things. 2 bombs 2 wars over!!!

 

[SIG600]

Zippy, fantastic post, even for a P-3 guy!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you seriously think that the US is intentionally targeting innocent civilians with UAV attacks then you need to do some more homework and check your sources...

I didn't say the US was intentionally targeting. However it does happen.... accepting the benefit of an action also requires accepting the responsibility.

Since you think terrorist flying planes into buildings is unacceptable, and UAV attacks (and other actions) disrupt terrorists in that part of the world and keep them off balance enough to prevent them from planning and executing another event like 9-11 how do you deem that? If the UAV actions and other efforts cease (much like you advocate) and Terrorist become successful in blowing up planes crossing the Atlantic and flying them into buildings again, will that make you happy?

Yet killing civilians doesn't create more terrorist? Kill a 10 year olds parents and 20 years later he is ready to attack. Unreasonable?

You cannot assume the the UAV attacks are a total net gain. Kill one or two legitimate military targets and create as many or more future "terrorist"

Actually, many of us in the Armed Forces are doing our part to try to bear that burden of responsibility to make the world better for future generations... what have you done to make this country and the world better for future generations?

So no one can question? Sorry that is not a free society. Do you really want to be a citizen in a country where military actions are not accountable and questioned? Is that democracy?

Let me tell you a little secret... people serving in the military tend not to support war either... because they are the ones that have to fight them. What they do is "support and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." The military also does other things besides wage war- Humanitarian relief operations throughout the world (most recently Haiti).

Humanitarian efforts are not in question here. Because humanitarian efforts are done in one area does that mean we look the other way when something doesn't look right?

Once again... you seem quick to pass the burden and responsibility of making the world a better place for everyone (already giving at the office), but show no support for them bearing that burden... If think you can do better, then by all means join up and pull your weight.

Respectfully one could question the invasion of a sovereign nation (Iraq) and why we are in Afghanistan. This is not a attack on the personnel serving honorably, but the intent of the civilian leaders in DC.

I hope your children have the ability to make form their own opinions of our society, government military and the world and I hope that your fear mongering hasn't completely distorted their vision.

Cheap shot. I actually reject war. Yet you are saying "we don't like, but we do it". How about we don't do it. Sure it takes a different mindset... and you are probably thinking that is too idealistic, however, if make war, accept war, insist war is inevitable, and leave the responsibility and burden to end war with future generations... then there will always be war.

It appears that you are willing to send your children and grandchildren (and mine possible) to war. Sorry, unacceptable.

In this case they are correct... violence in that part of the world has been going on for a very long time. UBL and AQ made their debut in the late 80s and early 90s (further back if you count Egyptian Islamic Jihad prior to the merger of the two groups)... but American's only really started feeling the effects of the group while supporting the UN mission to deliver humanitarian aide in Somolia (Another example of the military trying to help instead of waging war... funny how that works).

I disagree... it is far more complex than that.... especially if you consider cause and effect.

Democracy is the ability to quiestion ourselves and our actions... If I remember correctly you began this thread with a snide remark and not a question...

negative. What was the purpose of the thread? What is so great or positive about tripling the number of drones? Cause and effect. I could argue that this shows a lack of understanding, awareness and insensitivity to the unintentional civilian killings.

I truely hope you can rest comfortably knowing that you live under the freedom of a democracy... if you didn't- chances are that you and your family would have already been snatched up and "disappeared" in the middle of the night. Instead you will go to sleep tonight, and wakeup tommorrow free easy decision and to carry out your anti-government, anti-military (and whatever else you believe in) agenda- thanks to the sacrifices and hard decisions that the those who swore an oath (the government) to protect your way of life make every day...

What is wrong with you people? You pride yourselves on defending freedom and a free society then when someone says something you don't like you revolt. You are acting like a totalitarian regime. Actually, I think differently in that the US foreign policy and current occupations will cause (and effect) more problems in the decades to come with terrorist attacks.

I'm not sure if this has ever crossed your mind- but next time you see a member of the military (in the airport or wherever) say thank you for making your life so easy... you might be surprised with how they react.

Why do you guys need aggrandizement? If you feel what you are doing is just and righteous why do you care what others think?

Again, I think the individuals serve with honor. It is the policy of the govt that I fund that I have an issue with...... seriously guys... its called democracy and a free society.

 

[SIG600]

Why don't you just thank those that have done their part to secure your future, as well as your kids, and tried to make it a better place in your stead. If you want to question the manner in which it's done, write your congressman. Otherwise, you're just another assh0le with an opinion that's to weak willed to do anything other than whine on an internet forum. No one is sending your kids, or your grandkids to war. However if your kids or grandkids decide to VOLUNTEER to serve their country, and are thus sent into harms way.....

Agree, disagree, whatever. In all reality no one here gives a $hit. You're another uneducated prick with an opinion. You'll abuse the freedoms provided to you, then sh!t on those that provide it. Personally, I think you're another hack that can't see past their own self interest to the greater good.

Those that have been down range have told you you're wrong, you can't accept that, and continue to run your man pleaser thus solidifying your ignorance more and more. We get it, you think we can solve the worlds problems with a coke and a smile. You're ignorant, uneducated, and opinionated. Dangerous combination.

 

[JungleJett]

shack!!!!!

why don't you just thank those that have done their part to secure your future, as well as your kids, and tried to make it a better place in your stead. If you want to question the manner in which it's done, write your congressman. Otherwise, you're just another assh0le with an opinion that's to weak willed to do anything other than whine on an internet forum. No one is sending your kids, or your grandkids to war. However if your kids or grandkids decide to volunteer to serve their country, and are thus sent into harms way.....

Agree, disagree, whatever. In all reality no one here gives a $hit. You're another uneducated prick with an opinion. You'll abuse the freedoms provided to you, then sh!t on those that provide it. Personally, i think you're another hack that can't see past their own self interest to the greater good.

Those that have been down range have told you you're wrong, you can't accept that, and continue to run your man pleaser thus solidifying your ignorance more and more. We get it, you think we can solve the worlds problems with a coke and a smile. You're ignorant, uneducated, and opinionated. Dangerous combination.

 

[JungleJett]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. John Stewart Mill

 

[JungleJett]

I agree with Rez...Preds have done nothing but kill people. Its not like they are actually producing any results.....this article is filled with dirty lies about the successes of UAV operations. We should get rid of them or convert them to drop little sweet kisses on the world. Because if we stop attacking the Taliban and AQ, then the world break out into song, we will have endless rainbows, and we can ride unicorns to work at our candy and toy making jobs!! Rez can expand his product line of pink clothing and use the profits to provide PlayStations and Teletubby DVD's to the kids of the world!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35291011/ns/us_news-washington_post

 

[bagasticks]

rez, i have read alot of your posts and have just 2 observations to make concerning your beliefs.

1.) if every American had your political views there would be 10,000's of mutilated, unarmed, American infidels hanging from every bridge in Amercia (at the hands of your media's "innocent civilians"). You can hate war/military all you want but i can promise you one thing, it could easily look like beirut right here in the good old usa if certain regimes aren't addressed on foreign soil. .How does that sound for them precious grandkids?

2.) if every American had your economic views, EVERYTHING would be outsourced to foreign soil because of the union's ability to bleed corporations to protect the lazy. (before you state my ignorance, i spent 15 years in the I.A.M. as an A&P/I.A. for a major aircraft OEM watching the lazy-druggies get protected, and the customers get neglected).

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

rez, i have read alot of your posts and have just 2 observations to make concerning your beliefs.

Thanks for your opinion.

1.) if every American had your political views there would be 10,000's of decapitated, unarmed, American infidels hanging from every bridge in Amercia (at the hands of your media's "innocent civilians"). You can hate war/military all you want but i can promise you one thing, it could easily look like beirut right here in the good old usa if certain regimes aren't addressed on foreign soil. .

You fail to address the effect of American Foreign policy and the negative effects. You can't simply assume that all we do abroad is righteous, real or perceived.

2.) if every American had your economic views, EVERYTHING would be outsourced to foreign soil because of the union's ability to bleed corporations to protect the lazy. (before you state my ignorance, i spent 15 years in the I.A.M. as an A&P/I.A. for a major aircraft OEM watching the lazy-druggies get protected, and the customers get neglected)

Fail. What is interesting is you us the Fallujah example of the Blackwater employees killed. They were sent ill equipped and were given poor intelligence... all to collect kitchen equipment. Simply put, and here is the irony in your post... Blackwater an contractor who outsourced the DoD violated its own policy and contract... and sent good honorable men to their deaths... in the name of profit....


Keep it clear... the issue isn't the honorable service of our fellow citizens... it is the decisions of civilian leaders in DC........

Dissent is patriotic.

 

[bagasticks]

Thanks for your opinion.

You fail to address the effect of American Foreign policy and the negative effects. You can't simply assume that all we do abroad is righteous, real or perceived.

Fail. What is interesting is you us the Fallujah example of the Blackwater employees killed. They were sent ill equipped and were given poor intelligence... all to collect kitchen equipment. Simply put, and here is the irony in your post... Blackwater an contractor who outsourced the DoD violated its own policy and contract... and sent good honorable men to their deaths... in the name of profit....


Keep it clear... the issue isn't the honorable service of our fellow citizens... it is the decisions of civilian leaders in DC........

Dissent is patriotic.

If you (or any caucasion American for that matter) had been walking down that same street showering them with love and tidings of peace on that afternoon, where would you be right now?

You're right in that there are at times, questionable decisions made by our country's leaders but that of the "acceptability" of collateral damage is handled VERY conservatively, and that policy has over the years, cost more than it has saved. How long would the Vietnam war had lasted if Linebacker II had taken place in 1965 instead of 1972? What if we had invaded Imperial Japan rather than glow bomb it? I'll promise you that we take far more precautions to avoid unneccessary damage than our adversaries do. We are about the last country left playing by the Geneva convention.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

If you (or any caucasion American for that matter) had been walking down that same street showering them with love and tidings of peace on that afternoon, where would you be right now?

good point. BW should have never sent them there in the first place.... no armour, one man short and all for kitchen supplies... this was a outsourced profit based killing... outrageous... anyone on this thread disgusted? Anyone?

You're right in that there are at times, questionable decisions made by our country's leaders but that of the "acceptability" of collateral damage is handled VERY conservatively, and that policy has over the years, cost more than it has saved. How long would the Vietnam war had lasted if Linebacker II had taken place in 1965 instead of 1972? What if we had invaded Imperial Japan rather than glow bomb it? I'll promise you that we take far more precautions to avoid unneccessary damage than our adversaries do. We are about the last country left playing by the Geneva convention.

Nice try but there is a big difference between WWII and Iraq. Japan was the aggressors. Now we are.....

As far as Vietnam... how about that have never taken place..... then we wouldn't have this discussion.....

Placing the burden to stop wars on future generations... isn't logical...

 

[bagasticks]

good point. BW should have never sent them there in the first place.... no armour, one man short and all for kitchen supplies... this was a outsourced profit based killing... outrageous... anyone on this thread disgusted? Anyone?

Nice try but there is a big difference between WWII and Iraq. Japan was the aggressors. Now we are.....

As far as Vietnam... how about that have never taken place..... then we wouldn't have this discussion.....

Placing the burden to stop wars on future generations... isn't logical...

based on your logic, all future war will be on OUR soil. . .

How exactly are extremist muslims less aggressive/dangerous than imperialist Japanese, that ate the organs of our Grandfolks? because they have less money/infrastructure does not make them less dangerous, in fact it adds desperation and resourcefulness.