Pdt

[LowlyPropCapt]

All in all, a great post.

I'd just add that, by design, PDT and PSA do not make any money. They are an expense on the Airways books are viewed as a way to bring people to the hubs so they can get on a mainline flight. They operate at cost without a profit margin.

That is pretty much what I was trying to say. WO's are operated at cost, but contract carriers are "cost-plus." They are- have to be- more expensive in the long run.

I don't think it was a brand/livery thing that got the camel's nose in the ol' tent, it was mainline's snubbing of the regional jets -- "regional" jets that now fly half-way across the country. If oils had stayed above $100, I think we would have seen a resurrection of the truely regional aircraft -- the turboprop. However, now that it's back down, who knows...but I'm not optimistic.

You are not going back far enough. Regional jets would probably not have even existed-at least in the numbers that they do- had ALPA never given any scope relief historically. It all began with that Henson (coincidentally!) Queen Air flying for Allegheney way back when. Once some scope relief was given, management was able to use that as a pry bar to gain further scope concessions from the mainline unions. First it was a Queen Air... Then 19 seaters, then 31 seats, then 37, then 50, then 68 seat ATRs. Then the jump was made to jets, the first RJ being concieved was put on the drawing board with 31 seats! It didn't take long to get to 50 and now we have 90 seat jets (basically 717s or mothership Fokkers!) flying around with pilots paid less than 40% of what they should be. My point is that it all began with that first instance of scope relief and ALPA was absolutely complicit in the fall of the profession. To this day I heap ashes on thier heads and say shame on them!

Finally, how would seniority list work with places that have crews moving between the differnet carriers

That is the rub, isn't it. If no scope relief had ever been granted than this wouldn't be an issue, but now everyone would be stepping all over each other for a piece of the pie. As I think I have demonstrated, ALL flying is and should be mainline flying and we are essentially "stealing" it and stealing from ourselves what could have been a better job. No honor among thieves...

 

[Captain Morgan]

No they don't, but I think they are more suited over there, then on the D Concourse. I would hope one day they would get the word Express off that plane and up the payrates. Never thought regional pay would be slammed into a plane that big.

Sad, whats next? I guess soon the 737 will be a regional plane also.

Ehhhemm... The 737 is a regional airplane. You're about 40 years late on that comment.

 

[quinnlake]

Ehhhemm... The 737 is a regional airplane. You're about 40 years late on that comment.

If the 737 is a regional plane, what isn't? The space shuttle? The star ship Enterprize?

 

[Captain Morgan]

If the 737 is a regional plane, what isn't? The space shuttle? The star ship Enterprize?

You should take another look at your history. The 737 was one of the first regional aircraft, along with the DC-9. There was quite an uproar from pilots and ALPA because it also had a two man crew, making the Flight Engineer obsolete. Back then, USAir was flying 73's and DC-9's around the Northeast REGION out of Pittsburgh. Whether you like it or not, the 737 and DC-9 are regional aircraft. What has happend today is an abomination. 737's are doing transcons and we have an in-between jet now called a regional jet. The RJ's should really be called a Commuter Jet, or a Feeder Jet. Another group of aircraft infiltrated the US from Europe that were well suited over there but here they were just considered Regional Jets. Perhaps you've heard of the Fokker F-28 and F-100. What about the BAC-111, or the BAE-146. All of those are Regional Jets over here. Over there they are just jets because that's all Europe is, one big region. Well, there you have it. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

 

[WSurf]

You should take another look at your history. The 737 was one of the first regional aircraft, along with the DC-9. There was quite an uproar from pilots and ALPA because it also had a two man crew, making the Flight Engineer obsolete. Back then, USAir was flying 73's and DC-9's around the Northeast REGION out of Pittsburgh. Whether you like it or not, the 737 and DC-9 are regional aircraft. What has happend today is an abomination. 737's are doing transcons and we have an in-between jet now called a regional jet. The RJ's should really be called a Commuter Jet, or a Feeder Jet. Another group of aircraft infiltrated the US from Europe that were well suited over there but here they were just considered Regional Jets. Perhaps you've heard of the Fokker F-28 and F-100. What about the BAC-111, or the BAE-146. All of those are Regional Jets over here. Over there they are just jets because that's all Europe is, one big region. Well, there you have it. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

I see you have read your copy of "Flying the Line".

LOL

The payrates back then on the F-28's back in the 80's are better then what we see now on the 170's.

We could talk all day about whats a regional airplane, but if your flying a bird that replaces a mainline plane you should get atleast in the same ballpark in pay.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I see you have read your copy of "Flying the Line".

LOL

The payrates back then on the F-28's back in the 80's are better then what we see now on the 170's.

We could talk all day about whats a regional airplane, but if your flying a bird that replaces a mainline plane you should get atleast in the same ballpark in pay.

Exactly what my point was. Pilots now days think a 737 is big time. Not quite. My point was that 30 years ago, a 737 was a first airplane at a Major and ran regional routes, unlike today. Now you have so called regional jets flying those routes and mainline has nothing less than a 737-700-900 and those are on their way out too. Absolutely right, about the payscales too, I'd rather be flying an F-28. Now there's a plane with noise, no fancy shmancy FMS, and no slats. You nailed it, I own Vol. 1 and 2 of Flying the Line. Good books, but considering the source I like to view other sources when I research history. This is a pretty good site, if you've got any other's throw 'em out there: http://www.departedflights.com.

 

[FMEpilot]

There is talk on another board of PSA + PDT = PSDT Jan 1. BS or possibly some truth? Both groups are now accepting resumes (I know psa still has guys on the street.) Thoughts?

 

[FMEpilot]

Forget what I said about psa, their page has not been updated since August.

 

[MCOE175]

PHX here we come!

According to the ask pdt put out today... no flying west of the Mississippi.

 

[Sig]

According to the ask pdt put out today... no flying west of the Mississippi.

Something tells me RobCat isn't the one that is holding on. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm merely guessing.

Whatever.

My wedding tackle landed one hot wife, so I'll measure myself another way- in November, my per flight hour pay was north of 395 bucks. Does that make me "skeert" with the above revelation? No.

Hey! I can sing "Nessun Dorma!" Does that make me cool, too? Wait- I still have a hot wife, work a couple of days a month, actually fly an airliner versus punching FMS buttons, I'm over 6 feet tall and majored in Chemical Engineering with a double minor.






What were we talking about?

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Something tells me RobCat isn't the one that is holding on. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm merely guessing.

Whatever.

My wedding tackle landed one hot wife, so I'll measure myself another way- ?

Wedding tackle...

Haven't heard that in a long while... That's funny stuff!

 

[WSurf]

According to the ask pdt put out today... no flying west of the Mississippi.

You mean you call or dial in every Sunday to see whats on 'ask piedmont' and you don't even work here?

"nerd alert"

 

[Hobit]

Something tells me RobCat isn't the one that is holding on. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm merely guessing.

Whatever.

My wedding tackle landed one hot wife, so I'll measure myself another way- in November, my per flight hour pay was north of 395 bucks. Does that make me "skeert" with the above revelation? No.

Hey! I can sing "Nessun Dorma!" Does that make me cool, too? Wait- I still have a hot wife, work a couple of days a month, actually fly an airliner versus punching FMS buttons, I'm over 6 feet tall and majored in Chemical Engineering with a double minor.






What were we talking about?

You kinda sound like that Gen Lee chick that wastes everyones time around here.

no offense, just saying

 

[mrebuck]

You kinda sound like that Gen Lee chick that wastes everyones time around here.

no offense, just saying

He did say he has a hot wife, however.

 

[WSurf]

You kinda sound like that Gen Lee chick that wastes everyones time around here.

no offense, just saying

You mean Kinda what you just did?