PDT Doomed!!

[WileE]

AceCrackshot

On one hand you are griping about the TA for Mesa being concessionary (which it isn't, it's not a huge leap ahead but it's not going backwards) and on the other you are complaining how ALPA has failed to prevent the whipsawing that your companies are able to do against you. You seem to keep overlooking the biggest thing about this TA is industry leading scope that will prevent that from being used against Mesa again. That is what makes it worth voting this one in.

 

[j41driver]

How come you MESA guys think that your new scope language is so airtight? Eagle has language that says that all AA feed will be provided by Eagle. Pretty straight forward. Airtight. The arbitrator just ruled against them and AA is now free to grow TSA and CHQ if they so desire. I wouldn't call any scope language airtight these days. And no I don't work for any of the above mentioned carriers. Vote NO on this TA. You guys can do better than this.

 

[eaglefly]

Sorry J41, but your assumption is INCORRECT.

Eagle does not now, nor has ever had language that says "all AA feed will be provided by Eagle".

The only scope protection we have involves our CURRENT aircraft and routes.

Additionally, any aircraft owned by AMR Eagle must be staffed by pilots on our seniority list.

This ruling involved only the STL operation . The greivance on the 14 transferred A/C should result in the eventual transfer of our pilots or their sale to TSA.

Neither of those has occured yet and the owners are still AMR Eagle (several months after transfer of the first A/C).

In the future, you might want to research your claims a little better to lend more credibility to your statements.

 

[WileE]

As airtight as it could get.

The scope clause was written by the ALPA lawyers and is word for word what they submitted to the company. It is not a negotiated document, the company has not put any changes in the wording at all. That's why JO is hoping that this TA is turned down.

 

[blzr]

PDT DRIVERS KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!

The post that started this thread is not entirely false, but not entirely true either. It seems, this comming from staff at MidAtlantic, that the higher ups got together and came up with a brilliant idea. LETS COMBINE THE WHOLLY OWNED CARRIERS. Haven't the pilots been saying that for the better part of 10 years? Anyway, they are in the process of combining the payroll depts and H.R. depts. I just heard this last night from a friend that is on staff at MidAtlantic.

My theory is that Airways feed will be like Contenental Express in the near future. One carrier, as opposed to 13 or so, and all company employees that care and have a stake in the company. We'll see, but sounds to me like this is happening now. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

 

[surplus1]

Re: As airtight as it could get.

The scope clause was written by the ALPA lawyers and is word for word what they submitted to the company. It is not a negotiated document, the company has not put any changes in the wording at all. That's why JO is hoping that this TA is turned down.

Please! Ninety percent of ALL scope clauses were written by "ALPA lawyers" and ninety percent of them have been trashed by Company lawyers.

The problems at PDT/ALG/PSA, the current problem at MESA (Freedom) and the current problem at Chautauqua (Repulic) are ALL generated by Scope clauses written by ALPA lawyers and Jets for Jobs protocols, also written by ALPA lawyers.

When are you folks going to wake up?

ALPA has but one objective and that is to put as many major airline members into the cockptis of regional carriers as they can. If that happens to cost the regional pilots their contracts or their jobs, ALPA doesn't care! Its just one more time that you all have to eat an ALPA sh!t sandwich. Enjoy -- you seem to like it.

 

[WileE]

You just answered your own point.

Yes all scope clauses are written by ALPA lawyers. The difference with THIS scope clause and all the others is that the company lawyers did NOT trash it. In fact they did not even get a chance to change a single word. Why is that so difficult to get through your head? All the other clauses in the past were negotiated with the company lawyers, allowing the company to work out the loopholes and clauses they wanted. None of that happened here, that's the whole point. This is ALPA's dream scope, not a compromise like everyone else has.

 

[surplus1]

Re: You just answered your own point.

Yes all scope clauses are written by ALPA lawyers. The difference with THIS scope clause and all the others is that the company lawyers did NOT trash it. In fact they did not even get a chance to change a single word. Why is that so difficult to get through your head? All the other clauses in the past were negotiated with the company lawyers, allowing the company to work out the loopholes and clauses they wanted. None of that happened here, that's the whole point. This is ALPA's dream scope, not a compromise like everyone else has.

My friend, if it makes you happy that's great.

Do you honestly believe that because it was accepted "as is" by management that equates to perfection? That only means that it does not, at this time, contain anything that your management did not want. If and when, in the future, it conflicts with managements' effort to do business, they will find a way around it, just as they (and others) have all other scope clauses preceeding it.

Don't overlook the fact of why you got into this situation in the first place, i.e., because ALPA lawyers at USAirways, wrote a "perfect scope clause" that prevented MESA from doing business with a third party. MESA responded by creating Freedom, an entity not bound by that "perfect" scope clause.

That scope clause also gave MESAG the opportunity to use the "new alter ego" as leverage against you at the bargaining table. As a result, your ALPA lawyers were forced to write yet another "perfect scope clause". Bravo. What were you forced to do?

Give up all significant potential gains in your CBA, settle for substandard wages, work rules and benefits, accept abrogation of your seniority through "Jets for Jobs"

The "best scope in the business" (formerly at USAirways) was truly effective in keeping out the RJs -- and also contributed to the bankruptcy of the airline. Now it has been replaced. A new alter ego has been put in place at USAirGroup and the outsourcing of USAirways flying is greater than ever before or than anyone else.

You, will "benefit" from that -- you'll get more flying. Half of that flying will go to pilots from another airline, and all that you have to give up to get it is your seniority at your own airline, the contract improvements that you probably could have negotiated, and a large dose of your self respect (which apparently doesn't matter to you). However, you did get the "new and improved perfect scope clause"; until the next round.

That other one (at USAG) was once "ALPA's dream scope" as well. Looks like the dream has turned out to be a nightmare -- for MESA, for Chautauqua, for PDT, for ALG, for PSA, for the furloughed Midway pilots and TSA is next.

I'm happy that you like it, and I wish you nothing but the best. Looks like you're going to pay a big price for "ALPA's dream scope". To me, it seems to have come at too high a price, for far too many and much too late.

But, what do I know? Nothing. I'm just a cynic - "A blaggard who see things as they are rather than as they ought to be." - Voltaire

PS. For the record -- I am NOT blaming MESA pilots for anything. I don't agree with all the "MESA bashing" in these threads, and I think the MESA pilots are just the "victims" of the hour. You guys are in a very tough spot at a very tough time. It's not your fault. If there's anyone to blame in this mess, it may well be the "union" that created it all.

 

[blzr]

PDT an ALG

Last night in Pit, one of the PDT ALPA reps was saying that once we emerge from CH11, that not only will our H.R. and Payroll be combined, but our schedueling will be handled by Mainline. This could mean REAL reserve lines, and hopefully less sitting around on hard lines. To me, this means that we at PDT and ALG will be around for a while. We'll see.